Walnut box & Neat hinges

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andersonec

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Just finished this Walnut box and thought I'd use Ian Hawthorne's new Neat hinges for the hardware, It is always a tough decision which hinges to use and usually the deciding factor is down to price but if you are going to spend time and effort making a box and it is going to be a thing of beauty (hopefully) then it seems a shame to spoil it by fitting cheap hardware which always looks out of place and detracts from the finish.
I also decided to use one of his Neat Locks, I think a box always needs something at the front and it's either a handle or a lock, obviously a lock is added value.
Ian's older type hinges had a knuckle which had to have a small recess cut to allow it to open, these new hinges are made differently and do not require any additional cutting, they make fitting hinges a breeze. Anyone who has tried to fit quadrant hinges will know the problems of making two cuts on each corner and then cutting out a mortise for the stay, these hinges require no more than one cut each corner and screwing in, four passes on the router and job done.
The setting up of your router table is important and it requires some scrap, this is where some forward thinking comes in and a short length extra needs to be produced when cutting the sides of the box. Fitting instructions come with the hinges and lock and a few minutes setting things up accurately pays dividends, my little 8mm cutter actually cuts 8.5mm (I will have to invest in a spiral bit) so the slot is slightly larger than required and leaves an unsightly gap. The hinges and lock measure 8mm across so leave plenty of wood either side of the hinge if you cut your box sides to a minimum of 13mm. As the box needs to be in Lincoln tomorrow I didn't have time to make an escutcheon but will do so next time.
These locks and hinges are highly polished and add that bit of quality to your box, the lock mechanism is firm and secure without any play and locks onto the striking plate firmly but it also moves freely, all in all I think they are well worth the investment for a box you are spending time and effort on.

Ian also does a 180 deg opening hinge for games boards and writing slopes etc. just Google Hawthorncrafts or Neathinge.

Question for you, how much do you think I should be asking for this stuff ? I am in a constant quandary about pricing my boxes, they obviously need to be priced to sell but then you need to make a few squids, I am retired so my time doesn't really come into it, I am always being told to charge for my time but this is not my living and the time it takes me to do one of these (8-10 days is at my speed) is not important, I do this at my pace and start and stop when the fancy takes me.

Click on the images for a larger picture.

Andy

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Gorgeous box Andy.
I haven't tried Ian's Neat Hinge but I have bought a set of Andrew Crawford's Smart Hinges to use on my next box project - any idea how they compare?

I'm not quite with you on what you mean by: -
a short length extra needs to be produced when cutting the sides of the box
Is this to enable you to cut the mortice for the hinge whilst retaining some extra support?

Glynne
 
Glynne":vuoq7kdd said:
Gorgeous box Andy.
I haven't tried Ian's Neat Hinge but I have bought a set of Andrew Crawford's Smart Hinges to use on my next box project - any idea how they compare?

I'm not quite with you on what you mean by: -
a short length extra needs to be produced when cutting the sides of the box
Is this to enable you to cut the mortice for the hinge whilst retaining some extra support?

Glynne

Glynne, sorry if it is not clear but what you need to set your router up with is a short length, say 150mm, of timber the same thickness as your box sides.
I cut and thickness my box sides but allow an extra length for this purpose, if the total length (front, back & two sides) is 1020mm then I cut approx 1250mm to allow for blade kerf when cutting the mitres plus the off-cut for setting up purposes, to make it go further I split it lengthwise as you only need the thickness to set up your router.

Once you have set the fence for the cut leave it set for when you come to do the lock, all you need to do then is adjust your stops.

I haven't used Andrews hinges but they look pretty comparable, both the same width etc but as I said previously price usually dictates and Ian's include the postage. Fitting instructions are also downloadable.

Andy
 
Great work Andy. Is the router issue the bit or the concentricity. I would try a couple if other bits and measure the cut too. That said, spiral bits are very good.
 
lovley box Andy, really delightfull. As to a price, looking at the materials and brass not sure if that is swade or leather lining. I would suggest an easy £180 at a minimum. Just look at what some of the other furniture and box makers charge for a one off. And yours I am assuming is a one off and very beautiful and made by hand.

Cheers
 
Pricing is always a difficult one. The timber, veneers, lining, hardware, finish etc are easy enough to add up, and they soon will add up to a reasonable amount of money. The labour is another element and whilst you say that you are retired, there is a lot of time and effort has gone into it. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in a gallery for several hundred pounds. That said, if the customer had chosen exactly what you have prepared, and it was a commission, then they would expect to see more. Personally, I would pitch a commission at around £600 upwards and yours around £400. I doubt that commercially £400 would cover it but it serves to advertise your skill for commission work. It depends how many you want to make- sell them at 50 quid and you will have a waiting list months plus long. Sell them for a thousand, made to order and you may only get an order once a year.
 
Costing is very difficult, I would total up all materials add approximate cost of heating lighting etc etc, then charge something for your time, as has already been said if you charge very little for your time your order book would be full, too much and they won't sell, personally as it is a one off, you have to be looking at £300-£400 at least!

It's a beautiful piece which should demand beautiful money.

Baldhead
 
Thanks Andy, I'm with you now. I also downloaded Ian's instructions which are really good - a bit like making a story stick template if you are fitting conventional hinges.
I' d agree with the costing estimates. I live just over half a mile from Artifex and whilst their site doesn't give prices, you can see the type of boxes they sell and even the basic lift off lid type sell for £180. Factor in the complexity off what you are doing and the cost of the hardware etc. and the estimates seem pretty reasonable.
Glynne
 
marcros":246948wa said:
Great work Andy. Is the router issue the bit or the concentricity. I would try a couple if other bits and measure the cut too. That said, spiral bits are very good.

Mark, it's definitely the cutter, if you place a piece of wood against one wing and wind the cutter backwards the other wing misses or vice versa one wing touching then the other pushes the wood away, definitely a naff cutter which is wider one side, and not bought off ebay.

Andy
 
Thanks for all the advice chaps, it is always better with other peoples opinions and has given me plenty of food for thought and set me off in the right direction.

Andy
 
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