Wall plate sourcing?

[KevinLycett]

Narrower will be fine 200mm would be more than adequate.

Somewhere like dragon reclamation or Leeds wood recycling might have something reasonably priced?

Cheers James

I’m in Leeds so that’s very helpful, thanks

 

[KevinLycett]

Get a bit of unseasoned oak, larch or douglas milled up and bed it on with lime. Don't forget to fix the roof to keep it dry.

Yes the wall plate is just the start, but don’t know how to source such a huge thing, or if it’s even necessary to be that big.

 

[KevinLycett]

Is it really 5m width??
Looks less?
Where abouts are you in West Yorkshire?

There are places locally who machine local timber larch oak etc.

Cheers James

I’m I’m Leeds

 

[Jones]

There is only the one timber (which I’m referring to as the wall plate) so maybe it’s both acting as a wall plate and a lintel for the two doors?

If one piece is being both wall plate and lintel over the openings then the size needed will depend on the pitch of the roof, span of the openings, spacing of purlins and expected imposed (snow) load. You can look at part A (structure) of the building regs ,it's available free online at gov.org . I think a 75 X 225 mm treated should do you which should be available up to 5.4 m ,if not use a half lap joint on the bit over the wall. The lintel/wall plate and any purlins should be vertical with the rafters notched over them. Your roof does have quite a shallow pitch which would now be considered too shallow for slate make sure you have a good felt and ideally boarding under to stop it leaking. Welsh slate have good info on their website. Just seen the photo of inside and pitch doesn't look as low in that, 25 degrees and over is ok.

 

[KevinLycett]

If one piece is being both wall plate and lintel over the openings then the size needed will depend on the pitch of the roof, span of the openings, spacing of purlins and expected imposed (snow) load. You can look at part A (structure) of the building regs ,it's available free online at gov.org . I think a 75 X 225 mm treated should do you which should be available up to 5.4 m ,if not use a half lap joint on the bit over the wall. The lintel/wall plate and any purlins should be vertical with the rafters notched over them. Your roof does have quite a shallow pitch which would now be considered too shallow for slate make sure you have a good felt and ideally boarding under to stop it leaking. Welsh slate have good info on their website.

That’s really helpful, thanks. Any ideas where to source a timber like that? (I’m in Leeds)

 

[Dave Moore]

Hi, I need to replace a 5m x 240mm x 100mm wall plate on a 150yr old outbuilding (stone walls slate roof). Any thoughts on sourcing such a beast, or alternative ways to skin this cat? I’m in West Yorkshire if anyone knows any suppliers. Google draws a blank! Cheers.View attachment 124020

Hi,
If you mean a beam is required any steel supplier will have one or similar size and will cut to length and deliver for you..
Regards,
Dave

 

[Jameshow]

Try Manningham timber or Arnold lavers?

If you draw a blank I have a contact at outdoor classrooms in pudsey but he doesn't sell to the public.

Cheers James

 

[LeeAkeroyd]

5m long, 240mm wide, 100mm deep. Leeds.

Have you tried Kirkstall Timber?

 

[Adam W.]

There’s this massive timber at halfway (looking from doorway to back of building), is that a purlin?

That's the one, it's supporting the rafters at half height and if it's in good condition, you're in luck.

Yes the wall plate is just the start, but don’t know how to source such a huge thing, or if it’s even necessary to be that big.

If it's as I said and supporting the roof over the opening, then yes it would need to be that big and it's working in conjunction with the purlin to keep the roof from falling on your head.

You have a choice really. If it's your shed and you want to keep it looking authentic, then get a piece of green oak from a sawmill and stick it in. Most sawmills will mill a piece of oak that big and when you enquire, tell them its spanning two openings and they'll get you a piece of oak which is good for structural work. If you don't tell them that, they'll give you any old oak, but it'll probably be good enough. They will also deliver it for you.

As it's a shed, not a house, don't get in a twist over building regs, as it's not necessarry. Like for like is good enough, but before you go any further, take a look at the ends of the rafters that were sitting on the plate and post a picture.

If they are rotten, youll need to put new rafters on between the purlin and the wall plate, but it's all very simple so no need to worry about it or follow any complicated instructions. It's basic roofing and you can do it yourself if you can use a hammer and a saw.

 

[Adam W.]

Oh, I forgot.

If you make the wall plate any bigger or smaller, then you'll have to screw around with the purlin as it will change the geometry of the roof.....and you probably don't want to do that.

 

[Stevekane]

Your very lucky having a building like that and Im sure its well worth spending a bit of time on it, the big bit of Oak would be my choice but if you go down that route you will need a mate to help you lift it,,,it surprised me just how heavy a smallish oak beam was.
Steve.

 

[Jones]

Any builders or timber merchant should be able to do you a treated softwood in the size you need, do check the span tables in regs part A to make sure it's ok or bigger. Old buildings particularly sheds may not have timber sizes that would be considered good enough now . Green oak has considerable self weight which means you'll have to use a bigger piece than dry softwood and have a lot of fun lifting it up. You can expect to pay around £50 for a 9x3" softwood treated at 20 ft certainly a lot cheaper than oak.

 

[Adam W.]

Any builders or timber merchant should be able to do you a treated softwood in the size you need, do check the span tables in regs part A to make sure it's ok or bigger. Old buildings particularly sheds may not have timber sizes that would be considered good enough now . Green oak has considerable self weight which means you'll have to use a bigger piece than dry softwood and have a lot of fun lifting it up. You can expect to pay around £50 for a 9x3" softwood treated at 20 ft certainly a lot cheaper than oak.

Adherence to the building regulations is unnecessary in this case, as it's a like for like repair.

The reason why the original timber structure failed is due to decay from the faliure of the roof covering and the ingress of water, not because of undersized and ungraded timber. If the original timber had been kept dry and free from decay and still be holding the roof up, proving its size was sufficient. There is very little load acting on the plate at the foot of the rafters due to the oversized purlin holding it all up, which is why it's still standing.

As for positioning, just slide it up on 2" inclined bearers, it's an easy job for one man.

 

[Jameshow]

If one piece is being both wall plate and lintel over the openings then the size needed will depend on the pitch of the roof, span of the openings, spacing of purlins and expected imposed (snow) load. You can look at part A (structure) of the building regs ,it's available free online at gov.org . I think a 75 X 225 mm treated should do you which should be available up to 5.4 m ,if not use a half lap joint on the bit over the wall. The lintel/wall plate and any purlins should be vertical with the rafters notched over them. Your roof does have quite a shallow pitch which would now be considered too shallow for slate make sure you have a good felt and ideally boarding under to stop it leaking. Welsh slate have good info on their website. Just seen the photo of inside and pitch doesn't look as low in that, 25 degrees and over is ok.

I'd do100mm as it's the depth that's most important esp over the wide door.

Defo go for oak. I had a piece from bingley - turn right opposite the brown cow pub. Old guy, not sure he's still working? Ravenroyd farm I've msg them.

Also Keighley tree services will machine it too.

Cheers James

 

[Jones]

No need for building regs approval as you say, but it's wise to do a repair that's structurally sound . So doing the job to regs is sensible. In that age/ type of building it's likely that the roof timbers are softwood so replacement with like seems in keeping and economical

 

[Daniel2]

Your very lucky having a building like that and Im sure its well worth spending a bit of time on it, the big bit of Oak would be my choice but if you go down that route you will need a mate to help you lift it,,,it surprised me just how heavy a smallish oak beam was.
Steve.

Especially when it's green.
But, still worth it and perfectly feasible.
Certainly would be my choice for that building.

 

[Jameshow]

Your very lucky having a building like that and Im sure its well worth spending a bit of time on it, the big bit of Oak would be my choice but if you go down that route you will need a mate to help you lift it,,,it surprised me just how heavy a smallish oak beam was.
Steve.

Shout if you need a hand!! Or a van to transport it!

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I think that the existing timbers look like softwood - arguably oak would be overkill (although it won't need treating and looks beautiful). Interesting that the rafters look as if they're pairs of 4 X 2. You haven't told us what the existing timbers are - it does have some bearing (pun intended!).

The crucial dimension for this wall plate (which also serves as two lintels by the looks of it) is the vertical height - resistance to vertical deflection under the weight of the roof - esp. in the centre of the doorway - is the key issue. Any horizontal width >= 100mm would be fine, subject to it being properly anchored to the walls.

If you do go for a larger overall section, you can always split it - on the vertical axis - into two pieces bolted/nailed together to make handling/lifting easier (and possibly reduce the timber cost into the bargain).

 

[KevinLycett]

Oh, I forgot.

If you make the wall plate any bigger or smaller, then you'll have to screw around with the purlin as it will change the geometry of the roof.....and you probably don't want to do that.

Wow, that’s very reassuring. Thanks. Most of the timbers are pretty shot so it’s probably gonna be a strip back to the purlin which thankfully looks sound.

 

[KevinLycett]

Shout if you need a hand!! Or a van to transport it!

Wow thank you I will!