Wall Insulation

[Dibs-h]

For those who have insulated their walls - to reduce heat loss or reduce sound insulation, what's the recommendations?

Kingspan or a batt type insulation? It's to go in 4" stud walls, which have 4" block outer walls - very little to no cavity. I was erring down the road of batt type insulation. (there will be around 50-80mm of Kingspan in the roof)

As the workshop is on the boundary - sound transmission is of some concern.

 

[head clansman]

HI

I suppose really it could depend on how far away anyone who is likely to object from the noise is from your workshop, just because they can here your machine don't in it self make you a nuisance as noise diminishes over distant , but the duration of the noise could be up held in a complaint, things like what sort of machinery you have, old or new, will make a difference to noise level coming from each individual piece, which could make a big difference to the overall cost of what you eventually choose for your sound proofing . needs some serious thought . hc

 

[Dibs-h]

HI

I suppose really it could depend on how far away anyone who is likely to object from the noise is from your workshop, just because they can here your machine don't in it self make you a nuisance as noise diminishes over distant , but the duration of the noise could be up held in a complaint, things like what sort of machinery you have, old or new, will make a difference to noise level coming from each individual piece, which could make a big difference to the overall cost of what you eventually choose for your sound proofing . needs some serious thought . hc

Most of the machinary is the std sort of stuff in most sheds - ts, morticer, p\t and various handheld power tools. I suspect the p\t is going to be the loudest. Also if one is not buying PAR then it's likely to get a fair bit of use, when it does get used.

The distance behind the workshop to any room that gets used ( is a kitchen) and thats around 30' or so feet away - with small trees\shrubs immediately behind the workshop - inbetween the two.

From the front - there's about 6-8 meters of my garden and next doors (around 8m) and then around 5m of another garden before the house, whose living room would be directly opposite - where it not for the gardens.

Mind you there will be a wall\fence between me and next door and there is a fence between them and the last garden.

So I suppose the only real concern I have is with the neighbours right behind the workshop - after all they are the ones with the covenants on the strip of land that the workshop sits on. To date they've been fantastic - but I wouldn't want to create any nuisance for them.

I'm thinking that with 4" block walls and at least dense batt insualtion in the stud wall/s - one should minimise the amount of noise bothering anyone. What do you think?

 

[head clansman]

hi

all neighbours are relatively close , older machinery is much noisy against the newer styled quite induction motor type , if any of your machinery fall into the older styled, weigh up the replacement cost against the cost of sound proofing (it ain't cheep) block walls and studs with a thick good quality sound proofing should be OK . are you using the shop all day every day? as i said earlier sound does diminishes over distances so if your noise level are high and continues (noise level can be quite low but they will also consider the duration of the noise when a complaint is made) then maybe they would have a case over noise nuisence and not levels but if your like most of us part timers i don't really see a problem , buy the best sound proofing you can get , that way if there should be a complaint you have at least been seen to be taking them into consideration before you start machining there . good luck. hc.

 

[TrimTheKing]

I think a lot is made of noise pollution, and it's not always correct. I can't give you any calcs on it, but what I can tell you is that when I work in the 'shop, running the big chip extractor and either p/t or TS, and my wife is in the kitchen with only a double skin brick wall and standard domestic firedoor between us, she can still watch telly without being disturbed and says that she can hear it but only at a low drone.

If that is the case then I can't see anyone a few metres away, through blockwork, insulation, internal boarding (this will deaden sound too if you have it) and that amount of open ground space being able to hear anything at all, unless you work with all the doors/windows open.

Just my two pen'th, i'm sure others will shout me down, but that's the truth from my personal experience.

 

[chippy1970]

I used 50mm kingspan all over mine the roof and walls with 50mm jablite under the floor. Cool in the summer and warm in the winter and it keeps the sound in very well.

 

[Dibs-h]

Thanks Chaps. The construction will be plasterboard, stud wall (with insulation & vapur barrier on one or both sides) and the block wall. For the full length of the back wall - there is on average a 3" gap next to the boundary wall and then an 18" thick drystone wall which is about 5' tall.

So I think with the trees\shrubs on the other side and a 30 or so foot distance to the neighbour's kitchen, any noise should be greatly reduced.

Just a case of working out whether the dense batt type of insulation has better noise reduction properties than the Kingspan type of stuff.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Dibs

With that type of construction I would honestly be surprised if you could hear anything over a low hum at 10' away, never mind through that wall, shrubs and 30'.

You'll be fine, unless you're putting on a tin roof...

 

[MikeG.]

Just a case of working out whether the dense batt type of insulation has better noise reduction properties than the Kingspan type of stuff.

The fibrous materials are certainly better sound insulants than board-type insulation. Cut them slightly oversize so that they fit very tightly......it is usually gaps that cause sound problems.


Don't get me panicking again......what did you mean by "Vapour barrier on one or both sides"?

Mike[/i]

 

[Dibs-h]

Just a case of working out whether the dense batt type of insulation has better noise reduction properties than the Kingspan type of stuff.

The fibrous materials are certainly better sound insulants than board-type insulation. Cut them slightly oversize so that they fit very tightly......it is usually gaps that cause sound problems.Mike[/i]

Cheers Mike.

Don't get me panicking again......what did you mean by "Vapour barrier on one or both sides"?

Mike[/i]

When the stud walls go up against the blockwork skin - I suspect a vapour barrier will be required either just behind the plasterboard or between the blockwork and the stud wall, or perhaps both. My head is that swimming with joint details for the Kingpost roof trusses I have to make up - that I haven't actually sat down and thought exactly where the vapour barrier is required.

Dibs

 

[MikeG.]

Inside, Dibs.......inside. The vapour barrier always goes on the warm side of the insulation, and that means on the innermost face in the UK.

I really must do a "Sticky" post one day with Mike's laws of workshop building, and include the 12th commandment (as described above).

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

Inside, Dibs.......inside. The vapour barrier always goes on the warm side of the insulation, and that means on the innermost face in the UK.

I really must do a "Sticky" post one day with Mike's laws of workshop building, and include the 12th commandment (as described above).

Mike

Thanks - will make a mental note!

 

[EdK]

Hey,
I looked into this a while back mostly to contain my noise too

Sound is funny stuff and there are some dedicated forums that discuss sound barriers and so on - mostly home musicians and their recording studios. Seems like you can go all the way with de-coupling surfaces to avoid transmission of sound or you can just go the easy route and try and increase the density of materials.

I did this with double plasterboarding. They say to use two different thicknesses (12mm and 9mm) to avoid resonance. Also I looked into mid density rockwool - they sell 'acoustic grade' rockwool but from reading around this gives you very little gain in noise reduction over standard fluffy roll insulation.

Also smaller spaces seem to increase resonnance etc. I was toying with the idea of having one side of 12mm plasterboard then a 40mm gap then an internal leave of 12mm inside the stud walls then 12mm the other side but people advised me to just double face the walls as described (12/9).

With external walls I think it's mostly about density of materials - block will help. Also attention to detail around openings etc - can make a big difference.

Also 'flanking' is something to think about. Say you have amazingly constructed 'sound proof' walls but neglect the ceiling... the noise 'flanks' and flows over.

All more complicated than this but might be food for thought. Good luck
Ed

 

[Gordon T]

Hello all,
I also lined my ceiling with 4 inch Kingspan and the walls with 1 inch covered by boards.
As already stated above in addition to the extra insulation for warmth in winter it does deaden the sound. I have not yet had any noise complaints and I am surrounded on all sides by neighbours, all pleasant bar one!!! and I spend many hours turning and cutting blanks on my bandsaw. mind you that is nothing compared to the sound of my chainsaw

GT

 

[ferdinand]

For those who have insulated their walls - to reduce heat loss or reduce sound insulation, what's the recommendations?

Kingspan or a batt type insulation? It's to go in 4" stud walls, which have 4" block outer walls - very little to no cavity. I was erring down the road of batt type insulation. (there will be around 50-80mm of Kingspan in the roof)

As the workshop is on the boundary - sound transmission is of some concern.

Living next door but one to a place that is a "restaurant/pub" but has a late licence that suddenly started being exploited to the full (i.e., 2am) :-( I'd suggest that - while half of your solution is in the building - the other half is in keeping the neighbours on side, and making sure that you aware reasonably aware of their sensitive spots and hours.

That's classics such as people working shifts, when people are having parties and addressing problems so they don't get escalated. You'll have a lot of chances before the EH people get serious - it could take a year of complaints and neighbours keeping a noise diary before you had any serious interventions.

If push comes to shove, EH will be making measurements up to the boundary (that was all they could do for us).

Things such as where in the workshop you put your machinery and the type of noise may come into it. At least woodworking machinery doesn't generate a thumping bass line which makes your bed shake .

Ferdinand

 

[Dibs-h]

Chaps - the replies are much appreciated!!

Ferdinand - Thanks for the comments. There is a primary school at the bottom of my garden (i.e. their playground) which doesn't close till 17:00 - so any noise I make during the weekday is likely to pale into insignifcance.

Where we live is almost between suburb and rural - when the petrol cement mixer is running near the existing garage - at the bottom of the garden (where the workshop is) one can hardly hear it.

The neighbours on the other side of the boundary are wonderful people and the last thing I'd want to do is annoy them - so when the time comes I may get a mate to fire up some of the machines (some together like extractor and ts or extractor & p\t) and stand by their kitchen window to find out what the noise is like and based on that decide when certain equipement is used. Perhaps see what it's like sat in their kitchen.

Having said that with a wall almost 2.5' thick (the workshop wall at 9", 4" gap and then an 18" drystone wall) I would be shocked if at 30' feet away thru trees and shrubs one could actually hear anything - but better to be safe than sorry.

Cheers

Dibs