Wadkin UO/S 18/9” Planer Thicknesser (power supply)

[Spectric]

The digital convertor can run multiple machines so long as the total load does not exceed that of the convertor. The invertor can only supply one motor/load so becomes an expensive option when running multiple machines. Staying with 400Vac three phase means everything stays as is, no modification or changing the starter etc etc and no risk from using cheap asian invertors that I have seen as just a black burnt mess having gone into meltdown.

 

[Jitter]

The digital convertor can run multiple machines so long as the total load does not exceed that of the convertor. The invertor can only supply one motor/load so becomes an expensive option when running multiple machines. Staying with 400Vac three phase means everything stays as is, no modification or changing the starter etc etc and no risk from using cheap asian invertors that I have seen as just a black burnt mess having gone into meltdown.

Thanks Spectric. Digital converter sounds like an option along with the rotary converter with the slave motor. Both these options allow expansion albeit to a degree where I can link up more than one machine without further adaption to the machines or extra equipment to run them. I can only operate one at a time in any case.
I will cost up these options. I’m still a bit unsure of the load specifics for the equipment but have sent a few emails to some sellers to see what they say.

 

[Spectric]

What age is that motor, it has been a while since they were just Brook, now Brook Crompton but the address is still Huddersfield and a quality product, have fitted many of their motors .

 

[Jitter]

What age is that motor, it has been a while since they were just Brook, now Brook Crompton but the address is still Huddersfield and a quality product, have fitted many of their motors .

I’m not sure, if I was to go with the first 2 digits on the serial number it would be 85 so 1985 possibly but is a wild guess. I will try to find out though.

 

[Davey44]

Sorry for my delay in reply.
I am currently paralysed from the navel down in a hospital bed due to cancer and I am just not as quick as I would like to be.
The normal supply to the machine will run the control system start/stop etc.
With a vsd alternative means of control are required.
The original buttons on the uos for example are a bit unsuitable.
Though similar could be interfaced to the vsd.
I think you might be unlucky with the motor windings but good luck.
It is an old imperial motor too.
So a bit of mechanical work to fit a metric one.
Also I don’t believe that you’re going to get full motor torque running on 230V ph-ph instead of 400.
I would be unhappy unless I had a single button stop with the maximum possible deceleration to stop. then safe torque off implemented at the vsd.
Again I reiterate I trust that this is not for use in any kind of business and advice that there are other things to consider that are quite serious but difficult to get right in this manner of communication.
More and detailed advice will be necessary for this work to be undertaken safely.

I don't know you, but want to say that I'm thinking of you and sending positive vibes. I'd say I'd pray for you, but that would suggest I'm a believer. No need to say 'fight it' I'm sure. All the very best.

 

[Ttrees]

@Spectric
cheap asian invertors that I have seen as just a black burnt mess having gone into meltdown.

How much excitement does that entail ?
I cobble together metal boxes for mine, have had one fail on the bandsaw (my fault absolutely) but it wasn't dramatic like that.
(Don't bog your machine down whilst using these!, Motor went a bit too hot for my liking)
Not ever having used a planer thicknesser I would imagine one would have to go very easy.
I have yet to see someone using two VFD's to run these, makes for interesting reading.

Tom

 

[topchippyles]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I think ruling out changing the motor etc is a good idea just now due to complications that will inevitably arise. I am keen to get the machine working as it originally would with full 3 phase power, not so bothered about the variable speed at this point in time, I’d rather get the machine running with true 400vac if that is the correct term. So with that being said, I guess without simply attaching it to a huge generator, it leaves me two options I think. A 400vac digital converter with the last configuration that Spectra has suggested with the soft start or a rotary 400v static converter with the motor attached for the startup current, I like the idea of being able to hook up future machines to this also. I would only ever be using one machine at a time anyway.

A static rotary converter is your best option

 

[guineafowl21]

invertors are restricted to the output being equal to the input voltage due to regulations imposed by DNO's.

I haven’t heard this before - do you have a link to such regs? Not contradicting, just genuinely interested. I’m surprised, because reputable suppliers such as Drives Direct do stock them.

Assuming the motor hasn’t already been running on a VFD (if there is a big red commando plug on the end, it probably hasn’t), then it’s been wound for 400V delta. This allows star-delta soft starting, but has not been used on yours.

Delta is the lower voltage of the two configurations, ie it needs 400V minimum. This means that a standard 230V VFD cannot be used, and that reconfiguring in star will achieve nothing.

Given that you want to keep the motor, and may buy other three phase kit, you need a proper source of 400V 3ph. The simplest option that achieves all you want is a rotary phase converter. Digital versions are available, but are expensive.

EDIT: I’ll just add this - given the motor is clearly able to accept dual voltage, yet does not mention this on the plate, I would seek advice from a motor shop. There’s an outside possibility that it was a 400V star wound type that has been converted for delta 230V. Unlikely, as the connection plate looks factory, but still possible.

 

[Spectric]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...supplies.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3FPShaEwwDXoqqXihtaxx3
and from https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...PC-001_2.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3mwUEReJ8R6xGHySfBrBvv

There are predominantly two voltage variants of AC inverter drive available:
- 230V single phase input, 230V three phase output
- 400V three phase input, 400V three phase output
It can be seen that the output voltage is the same as the input voltage. An AC inverter drive
does not increase the voltage as with a phase converter. A 230V single phase input inverter
drive DOES NOT give 400V three phase output.
An AC inverter drives varies both the output voltage and frequency from 0V at 0Hz to
230V/400 at 50Hz.
An AC inverter drive is a ‘non-linear load’. The input and output supply is subject to EMC
regulation as the conversion process affects the supply network. An AC inverter drive will
produce harmonics on the supply. Filters maybe required.

 

[topchippyles]

I’m not sure, if I was to go with the first 2 digits on the serial number it would be 85 so 1985 possibly but is a wild guess. I will try to find out though.

Talked to my mate mark off the arbtalk forum and he has just gone through the same setup.He has bought a 9 kva static converter for his planer same spec as yours

Give Pete at Transwave Converters a call he is a font of info number is 0121 7084522 hope it helps les

 

[guineafowl21]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...supplies.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3FPShaEwwDXoqqXihtaxx3
and from https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjws9eGoMntAhVHiFwKHYrRBFE4FBAWMAN6BAgEEAI&url=https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/MCW-PC-001_2.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3mwUEReJ8R6xGHySfBrBvv

There are predominantly two voltage variants of AC inverter drive available:
- 230V single phase input, 230V three phase output
- 400V three phase input, 400V three phase output
It can be seen that the output voltage is the same as the input voltage. An AC inverter drive
does not increase the voltage as with a phase converter. A 230V single phase input inverter
drive DOES NOT give 400V three phase output.
An AC inverter drives varies both the output voltage and frequency from 0V at 0Hz to
230V/400 at 50Hz.
An AC inverter drive is a ‘non-linear load’. The input and output supply is subject to EMC
regulation as the conversion process affects the supply network. An AC inverter drive will
produce harmonics on the supply. Filters maybe required.

That makes sense.

Having said that, dual-stage inverters seem to have emerged on the market since those pieces you linked were written (2015). I can’t find one above 3hp so I guess there are limits, but that these units have got enough power factor correction and EMC filtering to earn their CE marks.

Have a look at this one, for example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3HP-DIGI...ILL-SAW-etc-/383777994422?hash=item595af376b6
There’s some confusion between digital phase converters and inverters around, but this unit appears to be a dual stage inverter.

 

[Jitter]

Hi all. It was a while since I posted this thread. I just wanted to conclude that the end result was a ‘rotary’ converter. This cost around £1500, although that was all that had to be installed then it was simply plug and play running the 5hp machine on a 5.5kw rotary converter. The rotary converter was wired directly to the board with a 32amp supply. This type of converter has a slave motor attached making it a rotary converter which generates a real 3 phase output. Another point is that other 3 phase machines can also be connected to it although have to be careful if using machines simultaneously and that the current (particularly the startup current) of the machines do not exceed the converter capacity. In this case it is a 5.5kw output for 5hp machine which works a treat. Being able to use the rotary converter for more than just one machine can make this option over a simple converter more attractive as even though the rotary one is more expensive, it means you do not have to buy separate ones for each machine.