Wadkin UO/S 18/9” Planer Thicknesser (power supply)

[Jitter]

I have managed to obtain this much needed planer thicknesser and know that I have the issue of not having 3 phase power. I am reaching out for some advice from people who may know these machines and what I would need to do.

I would be happy to run the machine from a generator although not sure what spec of generator I would need. If there is a simple way to convert the power from mains, I would be interested to find out a bit more about that also as it would be more ideal although the machine would only be used for rectifying planks of timber in bulk so a generator would do the job for now at least if that is viable.
Any advise is most welcome and would be greatly appreciated, particularly if from those who know this machine.

 

[andy hamilton]

I have managed to obtain this much needed planer thicknesser and know that I have the issue of not having 3 phase power. I am reaching out for some advice from people who may know these machines and what I would need to do.

I would be happy to run the machine from a generator although not sure what spec of generator I would need. If there is a simple way to convert the power from mains, I would be interested to find out a bit more about that also as it would be more ideal although the machine would only be used for rectifying planks of timber in bulk so a generator would do the job for now at least if that is viable.
Any advise is most welcome and would be greatly appreciated, particularly if from those who know this machine.

I looked into this a few years ago when looking for secondhand woodworking machinery, most of the best machines were 3-phase and I only have single. I was lucky enough to find some decent single phase machines, so I didn't pursue 3-phase any further. But I did learn that you can run 3-phase machines off single phase via a converter (or maybe they're called inverters - it was a few years ago). Best bet is to google it and see what's available and maybe check with a good electrician or reputable supplier what size converter you'll need to run your Wadkin. Hope it's as reliable as my Cooksley planer/thicknesser, I've had it 30 years and it was about 35 years old when I got it. Good luck!

 

[clogs]

pretty much depends on the horse power of the motor.....
seem to think mine was about 5HP when running but on start up it would take 15hp for a few seconds as a guess....
seem to remeber mine on 3phase must have taken 20secs to get up to full screaming speed......
not sure what Inverter u'd need but ud def need a big supply from ur mains to cope with the start up draw.....
might be better to look for something else......
a genny might be a bit inconvenient unless u power the whole shop from one full time.......
I'm sure somebody with more knowledge on inverters/VFDs will be along soon....

 

[Spectric]

Search these forums, a subject that comes up as often as woodworking.

Don't confuse a true three phase supply with any method that creates three phase from a single phase supply. If you had a three phase domestic supply you would have 100 amps available per phase, you could run something like a 37Kw motor pulling about 60 amps.

The VSD approach requires the motor to be dual voltage as it can only output 230Vac three phase, this is not an engineering limation because they could be designed to output 400Vac but is down to EMC regulations imposed by the DNO's. They convert Ac to Dc then back to a simulated Ac output so are classed as a non linear load and can only supply a single load so you would need one for each machine. You do get a variable frequency output but do you really need it.

The digital phase convertor approach allows you to run 400Vac motors and as many machines as you want providing the convertor can meet the power requirements, but you do not get a variable frequency output. These devices use the existing single phase supply and just create the 3rd phase, and are classed as a linear load.

 

[Jitter]

I looked into this a few years ago when looking for secondhand woodworking machinery, most of the best machines were 3-phase and I only have single. I was lucky enough to find some decent single phase machines, so I didn't pursue 3-phase any further. But I did learn that you can run 3-phase machines off single phase via a converter (or maybe they're called inverters - it was a few years ago). Best bet is to google it and see what's available and maybe check with a good electrician or reputable supplier what size converter you'll need to run your Wadkin. Hope it's as reliable as my Cooksley planer/thicknesser, I've had it 30 years and it was about 35 years old when I got it. Good luck!

Thanks for that. Yes I think that these old machines are built like tanks and are generally good for the job if looked after properly. I will check out inverters/converters.

 

[Jitter]

Search these forums, a subject that comes up as often as woodworking.

The digital one sounds good although right now, it is the only 3 phase machine I will be using in the near future. I guess it might come down to expense. I am the only one working in there and only one machine is running at any one time, even if I did get more machines in future. I’m kind of desperate to get this one up and running as I have allot of kiln dried live edge planks to flatten out to use and sell. I have a full kiln load ready to process and so much more to put in the kiln and feel that this was the only way to complete the cycle of production sensibly. Up until now, I bought each wood slab as I needed for jobs, this is like a new venture taking on the wood and processing it myself. If I can get over this last hurdle, things could really pick up for me but I know absolutely zero about electrics and powering machines like this so keen to take the most sensible and cost effective option to get this particular machine going. I know that it is 5hp so I guess that will determine the equipment I need.

 

[Jitter]

pretty much depends on the horse power of the motor.....
seem to think mine was about 5HP when running but on start up it would take 15hp for a few seconds as a guess....
seem to remeber mine on 3phase must have taken 20secs to get up to full screaming speed......
not sure what Inverter u'd need but ud def need a big supply from ur mains to cope with the start up draw.....
might be better to look for something else......
a genny might be a bit inconvenient unless u power the whole shop from one full time.......
I'm sure somebody with more knowledge on inverters/VFDs will be along soon....

Yes, it is a 5hp motor too. I guess I can work out equipment spec needed from that, or a sparky can possibly. It will be the only 3 phase machine in my shop for now and only me in there using 1 at a time anyway. I’m just going to use it mainly to flatten out allot of kiln dried planks so if a generator works and it’s plug and play, that would be ok for me but if there is a simple way to run it from the mains, I guess it would be better for convenience.

 

[Spectric]

If you have a genny ready to go it wll be the quickest to get up and running

 

[Jitter]

If you have a genny ready to go it wll be the quickest to get up and running

Thanks, this is what I thought. I don’t have one ready, I would need to purchase one. I wasn’t sure what spec generator would be needed but I am guessing a 10kva one. The machine is 5hp possibly 3.7kw, it will be on the serial plate when the machine arrives on Tuesday. Once I can figure out what a generator would cost, then I can figure wether it is worth getting a converter instead, I guess I could still hire a generator to get through the work in the meantime.

 

[deema]

The UOS is a lovely machine, it has a single motor that powers up everything. First off I’d measure the flange plate pattern in the motor to see if it’s a standard modern pattern, some are, some arnt! If it is, I’d simply change the motor for a single phase 3KW unit. It will have enough power, there are enough 16” PT that in single phase use a 3KW motor. The sedgwick CP does for example.

 

[Jitter]

The UOS is a lovely machine, it has a single motor that powers up everything. First off I’d measure the flange plate pattern in the motor to see if it’s a standard modern pattern, some are, some arnt! If it is, I’d simply change the motor for a single phase 3KW unit. It will have enough power, there are enough 16” PT that in single phase use a 3KW motor. The sedgwick CP does for example.

Thanks Deema. How do I know what I am looking at, is there something I can compare with? I can google some pictures possibly.

 

[deema]

It’s the spacing of the bolts that hold the motor flange to the machine.

 

[Jitter]

Right. I noticed in the online manual there are 3 different motors, 6hp 3 phase, 5hp 3phase and 4hp single phase, which I am guessing is for smaller versions, mine is 18” planer with the 5hp 3phase. I could take a picture of the flange plate on Tuesday when it arrives.

 

[Nick_D]

The motor frame number should give you all you need. Frame sizes are standards, so a 1ph of the same frame size of your 3ph should fit perfectly from a shaft, mount, etc perspective as far as I understand. Only thing to watch out for is that single phase overall diameters are generally bigger with all the capacitors, etc.
VFD would be alternative, although probably quite expensive in that high kw range.

 

[heimlaga]

Motor frames are trandard today but they haven't been for long. Most elderly motors are non standard and still today there are non standard motors on the market. If you decide to go down that route save the old motor for the future. Somebody else with access to three phase power may want to switch back to the original motor.

On many three phase machines the starting current issue is solved by using a wye-delta starter. This in turn requires a motor wound for 400/690 volts(or threabout). When the motor is tarted in wye configuration you feed 400 volts into a connection theoretically intended for (though usually not built to run on) 690 volts. This means that the motor deliver much less power and tends to run hot if left to run like this for a long time. However it speeds up with a much smaller starting current. once up to speed it it switched over to delta configuration where 400 volt is fed into connections for 400 volt and the motor runs like it should.
Be aware that many phase converters only deliver three phase 230 volt and therefore cannot be used to power a motor of this otherwise most excellent type.

 

[Jitter]

The motor frame number should give you all you need. Frame sizes are standards, so a 1ph of the same frame size of your 3ph should fit perfectly from a shaft, mount, etc perspective as far as I understand. Only thing to watch out for is that single phase overall diameters are generally bigger with all the capacitors, etc.
VFD would be alternative, although probably quite expensive in that high kw range.

Thanks I will try to find the motor frame number. I had a look at VFD, it is pricey.

 

[Jitter]

Motor frames are trandard today but they haven't been for long. Most elderly motors are non standard and still today there are non standard motors on the market. If you decide to go down that route save the old motor for the future. Somebody else with access to three phase power may want to switch back to the original motor.

On many three phase machines the starting current issue is solved by using a wye-delta starter. This in turn requires a motor wound for 400/690 volts(or threabout). When the motor is tarted in wye configuration you feed 400 volts into a connection theoretically intended for (though usually not built to run on) 690 volts. This means that the motor deliver much less power and tends to run hot if left to run like this for a long time. However it speeds up with a much smaller starting current. once up to speed it it switched over to delta configuration where 400 volt is fed into connections for 400 volt and the motor runs like it should.
Be aware that many phase converters only deliver three phase 230 volt and therefore cannot be used to power a motor of this otherwise most excellent type.

I really appreciate your help on this. I had no idea about the complications involved. I am starting to get an idea now.

 

[MilesH]

............. I had a look at VFD, it is pricey.

Whichever way you decide will cost about the same..... A new single phase motor will cost you about £320. A VF drive can be had for £140 plus the cost of re-terminating the existing motor in Delta (for 230V) of around £140. A VF drive with step up from 230V to 400V can be had for £300. The advantage of the VF drive route is having electrical braking.

 

[sploo]

Another advantage of a VFD is the ability to program the ramp up and ramp down times. Having the VFD bring the motor up to speed over ~3s hugely reduces the issue of the large in-rush current; meaning less chance of tripping MCBs.

I've not had any problems with the Huanyang units; though all mine are 3hp. A quick Google shows an eBay seller in Prague listing the "220V 4KW 5HP Variable Frequency Drive Inverter VFD Huanyang CNC" for £129. I'd guess you'd need to wire up a 20A line from your consumer unit for this, as you wouldn't be able to power it from a 13A plug socket.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Then you have got the control system to consider. Plus if it’s not diy only then a lot more than just sticking an inverter or generator on it. Though even if it is DIY then the generator might still invalidate your home insurance.