Wadkin PP fence question

[jetsetwilly]

Evening all, not been on here for a while but just acquired this late but rather tired PP (PP 900, tested 1982), and first on the list of repairs is the rip fence, which is a mess. Is it even a PP fence? Looks much older to me and is not the same colour as the saw. It's obviously been broken and welded, it's missing some knobs etc, there's no pointer and it doesn't lock down, and the plate is also loose at the rear. Any advice appreciated especially where I might get some bits.

(Thanks in advance to anyone pointing me to OWWM, English Jack, Chris Hall and the excellent restos on here etc etc - already read all of that, with great interest)

 

[Vann]

That's the same as my Wadkin PK fence. Originally designed for the PJ, I guess, but with fittings like a G3 or G4 PK.

...just acquired this late but rather tired PP (PP 900, tested 1982)...

1971 or 1972 surely? Can you put up a photo of the Wadkin tag please?

There is no pointer on the PK fence. There are however some graduations marked on the curved casting, and I can just make out the datum line on the adjacent casting.

The plate at the rear tightens by tightening that nut to the left of the curved casting.

I see you're also missing a tee locking handle and have a few ring-in bolts etc.

I'm off to work now, but will try to illustrate some of the odd bits when I get home (if no one beats me to it).

There's nothing wrong with having a PK fence - it might even be better built than the original.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[wallace]

If its been broken and repaired it might not sit properly on the table. It will have little blocks underneath that fit snugly in the slot in the table. On early fences the blocks are part of the casting, later they became bolted on, so can be changed if they are a bad fit in the table.
The plate can be adjusted with the four bolts/grubscrews so it runs parallel to the blade.
You should be able to tighten the fence to the table but still use the fine adjuster knob at the end

 

[Vann]

That's the same as my Wadkin PK fence. Originally designed for the PJ, I guess, but with fittings like a G3 or G4 PK...

...It will have little blocks underneath that fit snugly in the slot in the table. On early fences the blocks are part of the casting, later they became bolted on, so can be changed if they are a bad fit in the table...

It's a G3 fence (~1938-1948), so it will have those blocks Wallace refers to as part of the casting. On my battle-scarred G3 saw the blocks under the fence were badly worn, so I had a groove machined into it in order to fit blocks like a G4 fence.

Before surgery.

After surgery.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

...it's missing some knobs etc, there's no pointer and it doesn't lock down, and the plate is also loose at the rear. Any advice appreciated especially where I might get some bits...

- 3/8" BSW tapped hole "A" should contain a tee handle.
- Ball lever handle "B" should be a sliding tee handle identical to that beneath the yellow arrow.
- Tapped hole "C" (there are 2 of these) should have a grub screw with a slot - to retain the fence pivot pins. On G4 fences these screws have hex holes for Allen keys.
- Tapped holes "D" (there are four of these) should have grub screws - to adjust the fence parallel to the blade. On my G3 fence these screws have hex holes for Allen keys.

My fence (with grub screws and sliding face not yet installed):

Here you can see the 45degree graduation marked on the curved casting:

And the datum point marked on the main casting:

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Fantastic replies thanks to all. Getting late now but will get out there and check all those holes, grubscrews etc in the morning. The cast-in blocks are there and not terrible, though there is a little slop. I think the issue with not locking is the dovetail key bolt bottoms out in the (probably wrong) handle (and there's no secondary lock as noted). I think the loose plate is just a mullered bolt/nut too.

Guess I need to get my dad's old BSW taps and dies out . Wish I had a lathe...

Here's the machine plate - what made you say 1971/2? Is there a PP register somewhere similar to the PK one?

 

[Vann]

Thanks for the tag photo. Test 82158 was carried out at Wadkin's Green Lane works in 1971 or 1972 - http://www.wadkinrestorations.co.uk/machine-date.html The old theory that the first two digits of the test number are the year of manufacture, has long since been discreditted - at least for Green Lane machines.

...I think the issue with not locking is the dovetail key bolt bottoms out in the (probably wrong) handle (and there's no secondary lock as noted). I think the loose plate is just a mullered bolt/nut too...

Both the fence lock bolt (into the table) and faceplate lock bolt have dovetail heads. Without taking mine apart I can't tell you if they're both the same length - but if not, try swapping them over to see if that makes a difference.

Guess I need to get my dad's old BSW taps and dies out . Wish I had a lathe...

Since getting into these old machines some six years ago I've bought a couple of secondhand sets of taps and dies. They're invaluable for this type of work. As for a lathe - I wish I knew how to use one .

When it comes to getting replacement parts, you have to make your own, or pick them up off internet auction sites. I got a tee handle (same as the smaller one you're missing) off eBay UK just a month ago - and a very kind member here sent it out to me in New Zealand.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Thanks vann I had no idea my wadkin knowledge was so out of date! I feel better knowing it’s more like 50 than 40 . One part I will need to make is a sliding table retaining pin - saw is a bit of a one trick pony at present. Can anyone provide pictures of theirs?

 

[Vann]

...One part I will need to make is a sliding table retaining pin...

I assume you mean the locking pin that stops it sliding? I'm at work again (on a Sunday ) but I've got a sketch (provided by an Aussie) and some photos of the pin on the double mitre - which I believe is the same pin.

It is possible that the PP pin is different...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

Here is the sketch of the pin (redrawn by me)

But before you get one made, check the locating hole. I have seen one that was drilled out and the pin modified to 5/8" diameter. I'd also suggest you get it made overlength in case the sliding table lock pin is longer than the mitre pin (easier to cut short than to lengthen afterwards). Also, drill the 4mm hole yourself to suit - on the PK it has a tapered pin, but I suspect the PP might use a roll pin.

Can you put up some photos of this area as I'm working blind (assuming it's the same as a PK).

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Thanks Vann for your help - that pin might be correct. I had a quick look at the hole but haven't measured it - it could be 5/8". I presume there is a base plate and a spring and a shaped pin through that hole to pull the tapered pin down with?

Couple of snaps of my er, hole..

 

[jetsetwilly]

The rip fence can now be locked down - it was just bottoming out so a washer sorted that - but it fully locks the assembly, rather than just locking the block holding the fine adjustment. The fence has obviously been snapped and welded, then machined flat again and had the sliding blocks filled. I would expect all that to have made the main piece thinner, and thus less likely to lock in place when the primary lock is engaged, but not so.

So although I can now position the fence, there is no fine adjustment. I'll see if simple cleaning/scraping of the top mating surfaces can address that before I look at having it skimmed.

The fence plate can now lock too - the dovetail key was worn and pulling through the slot enough to bind against the plate mount before the plate could lock. A file sorted that out, but the plate is a long way off parallel to the blade. I will use the grub screws when my new imperial allen keys turn up (from the state of the rip plate it looks like they've been used a lot before!), but a question to others - how far out of square are your rip fences? (not the plate, the main fence casting that the plate mounts to). Mine is a couple of mm out over the diameter of the blade. Both the plate and the main casting are flattish, so I think the problem is probably due to the repair...