Wadkin 10 AGS spindle bearings

[Bigroomboy]

Hi everybody! Long timer lurker here but just joined up to post.

I have gained a lot of help from this forum reading old posts, so I thought I would try to pay something back. I'm part way through restoring a Wadkin 10 AGS as my first proper table saw. Anyway after doing quite a bit of searching I didn't find much info on replacement spindle bearings for the older spec 10 AGS.

The manual says g 88503 (skf). After eventually getting the old ones off the shaft the were labeled 6203ff, on the side not visible!. They had measurements I expect were the same as the originals. ID 17mm OD 40mm, outer flange 12mm inner flange 16.6mm. odd having a wider inner race but I thought I would have no problems finding replacements. Not true! There were some in the US and some advertised in Europe but on enquiring they wanted 50 euros each! I didn't order from a place 123bearings which turn out to be in France, not cheap for the 2 at £40 but they claimed they were premium. On arrival the measurements were not as advertised with the inner race being 20mm. I wasn't very happy about that after paying so much but I did eventually get a refund. On further investigation people seem to treat these older bearing designation very loosely.

Finally to the point, I did what I was tempted to do at the start. I bought 2 skf 6203 2rs very popular bearings and 2 for less than £10. Then I bought 1mm and 0.3mm shim washers (17mm ID) to make up the missing 2.3mm on the top and bottom of the spindle. I used a couple of small drops of super glue to keep them in place. So far it seems to have worked perfectly and makes for a very easy replacement.

One final point is the fine adjustment on the old fence. I cut off the damaged section of the gear at the end. On the lathe I then removed a similar amount of the cast handle. This may weaken the whole thing but so far so good!

 

[memzey]

Welcome! Remember the rule “no pictures; didn’t happen”!! We love old tool restorations here!

 

[MusicMan]

That's a great idea for renovating the gear! I'll try that on mine.

Keith

 

[SammyQ]

Can you please clarify what you mean 're your remarks on gear? MUCHO intrigued. My AGS needs therapy here too...
Sam

 

[woodywoodwood]

Bigroomboy and y'all.
I have been using an AGS for years, and need to give mine a service. I think it's all OK, but I would rather service and maintain than fix breakages etc.
The AGS in its various guises is such a popular saw, and deservedly so; I will follow with interest, and once I begin I shall contribute ( read ask more questions!) to the thread.

Thanks all.

Www

 

[Bigroomboy]

only the very end of the gear contacts the rack under the fence rail, its seems to be quite common that this gets chewed up. I dont' know if what I did will be good in the long run but I tapped the gear out of its hole, its just held in by an oilite bushing. I then cut off the damaged few mm at the end. The shaft is cast into knob with some type of pot metal, it looked like it was well embedded so I took a risk and removed an equal amount off the end of the knob casting, I dont know how deep the shaft goes but what i did looks ok so far. I don't have a proper metal lathe so i did it on the wood lathe held in a chuck. I took of the plastic with an older chisel and then filed away the pot metal, this took a while.....

Hope that helps

 

[Bigroomboy]

I'll try to add any useful information I come across here to help people out and I promise I will take some photos when I get chance but she isnt to pretty as she was repainted in hammerite back in the day.

I replaced the belts with XPZ 587 the fit seems good but I would recommend the next size up as this was very tight to get the motor back on.

Next job is to make a new riving knife so I will post details when that is done.

 

[SammyQ]

Thanks BRB; that's clearer...great idea!

Sam

 

[woodywoodwood]

Brb. Sorry mate, can I ask if all the belts were the same size? I know there's three pulleys, but do they all take belts the same length?
Can I ask what grease people are using on the parts? If any? And, whilst its all open/apart ; is there anything else I can do to improve things in there? I would like to soup up the DE but I really don't like using a box scoop design - was considering trying to leave a scheppach systainer style vac inside the cabinet semi permanently, with the barrel style extraction for the top.
Sorry to be a drain.
Www

 

[SammyQ]

Treble W? I tried several dust collection methods with my AGS . The problem with a Sheppach type was clearance. Lowering or tilting the blade left precious little room as components neared the cabinet sides. There IS one system on the web, but the constructor was limited to a small aperture exhaust pipe. Blocked easily I reckon. I am halfway through making a cabinet insert that will feed a 'bigmouth' that Axminster sells. I'm away from home presently, but will PM you details in about 10 days?
Sam

 

[Bigroomboy]

The three belts are all the same. You probably only really need 2 modern cogged belts TBH. There is not much to the inside of a table saw really. The bearings are sealed so if they are suspect just replace. then the machined quadrants at the front and back can be given a few drops of oil or a spray with ptfe lube. Same goes for the worm and gear for tilt and lift plus the slide for the rise and fall. Not much really they all just need a squirt every now and again to keep them clean and running free.

 

[MusicMan]

SammyQ, I had the same idea for the cabinet insert, and have the bigmouth waiting for it to be done. My thoughts were to have a MDF or ply insert running from the middle left to the bottom right (looking from the operating side) of the cabinet inside, with diagonal guides to guide the dust into the bigmouth. I already have a sheet metal cover for the motor, so the bigmouth will fit beneath that with more ply to cover gaps. Planning to fit the main dust guide insert as well as I can to the sides, and duct tape in place.

Hopefully you, Bigroomboy and others will post their improvements to the AGS here so we can all share!

Keith

 

[SammyQ]

Hi Keith. My idea is very similar to what you outlined above. Pre-empting getting home in a week, here is a thumbnail of what I've done:
1. Went to a commercial lorry breakers yard and scrounged an aluminium panel from a 6 tonner.
2. Jigsawed and angleground the sheet into rough-cut sheetlets.
3. Drilled and riveted together three pieces into a bear's arris 'scoop' that fitted inside the cabinet, but had an open side on motor side. This was as rough as guts (Aussie slang); the dimensions and shapes were trial and error via an old cardboard box as template material.
4. Cut more sheetlets; again, cardboard trialled, to deflect dust off internal ledges. There is acreage in there!
5. Tried Big mouth against cabinet: urk.. ..motor descending fouls BM...as far as I got before leaving for Scotland.
Back Wednesday week, photos then.
Intend to CAREFULLY cut out a slant on BM to accommodate motor - CURVED DESCENT - then encapsulate the motor and Big mouth with a light ply box as Asa Christiana of FWW did ( link at home, sorry). Three slots to go in it for airflow.
Sam

 

[MusicMan]

Hi Sammy, yes that sounds similar. My saw came with the sheet metal over the motor, on all sides, coming down to about 300 mm from floor then a gap to let the dust drop through to the bas of the saw. Nothing fouls the motor. So I plan to put the BM right at the base of the saw on the motor side, with ply guidance above. The dust is fairly well confined to the inside base of the saw at the moment so the idea is to persuade it along to the BM.

At the top I have the standard Wadkin crown guard fitted to the riving knife (well, splitter). Thinking of an alternative to this with DE fitted, and a lower riving knife with separate crown guard, to do partial cuts. Not designed yet, though!

 

[SammyQ]

If anyone can get me a Wadkin crown guard, I will personally guarantee their immediate beatification, lottery win and intense personal attention from Heidi Klum....

 

[MusicMan]

Noted. Off to google Heidi Klum ...

 

[BruceK]

Hi everybody! Long timer lurker here but just joined up to post.

I have gained a lot of help from this forum reading old posts, so I thought I would try to pay something back. I'm part way through restoring a Wadkin 10 AGS as my first proper table saw. Anyway after doing quite a bit of searching I didn't find much info on replacement spindle bearings for the older spec 10 AGS.

The manual says g 88503 (skf). After eventually getting the old ones off the shaft the were labeled 6203ff, on the side not visible!. They had measurements I expect were the same as the originals. ID 17mm OD 40mm, outer flange 12mm inner flange 16.6mm. odd having a wider inner race but I thought I would have no problems finding replacements. Not true! There were some in the US and some advertised in Europe but on enquiring they wanted 50 euros each! I didn't order from a place 123bearings which turn out to be in France, not cheap for the 2 at £40 but they claimed they were premium. On arrival the measurements were not as advertised with the inner race being 20mm. I wasn't very happy about that after paying so much but I did eventually get a refund. On further investigation people seem to treat these older bearing designation very loosely.

Finally to the point, I did what I was tempted to do at the start. I bought 2 skf 6203 2rs very popular bearings and 2 for less than £10. Then I bought 1mm and 0.3mm shim washers (17mm ID) to make up the missing 2.3mm on the top and bottom of the spindle. I used a couple of small drops of super glue to keep them in place. So far it seems to have worked perfectly and makes for a very easy replacement.

One final point is the fine adjustment on the old fence. I cut off the damaged section of the gear at the end. On the lathe I then removed a similar amount of the cast handle. This may weaken the whole thing but so far so good!

I know this is an old post but I'm replacing the spindle bearings on my AGS saw so would appreciate your views please. The bearings I've removed are simple 17 x 40 x 12mm, with no extended inner face so not 16.6mm. I can't see what the shims would do unless it's to reduce end float and I didn't notice any of that before I took it apart. The collar between the 2 bearings is held in place with a bolt through the casting. Might mine be a different model?

 

[Fitzroy]

This is the spindle off of mine, it has the bearings with the wider inner races. The outer races sit against the collar, the wider inner races sit against the arbour flange and pulley. On the pulley side I don’t think they do much, on the blade side they may effect blade alignment with the riving knife.

Fitz

 

[BruceK]

Thanks for the reply. Mine is the same as yours. Perhaps that's why someone has removed the riving knife from my saw. I'm waiting for new bearings to arrive (without the flange). Maybe a 3mm washer between the arbour and the bearing to keep the blade in line with the riving knife will do the job. After reading Bigroomboy's experiences I did write to 123 Bearings asking them if they would guarantee that their inner flages were 16.6mm and they replied saying they had checked with their suppliers and been advised that they were 16.6mm. I'm looking for a table extension if ayone has one available. I made an offer for one I saw on Ebay and spoke to the guy and he promised he'd get back to me but.....

 

[BruceK]

Thankyou for the advice. What I've ended up doing is to take a couple of standard M16 washers and hand file them down to 2.3mm (give or take) and have now fitted one at each end of the spindle to help align the arbour and the pulley and to act as a spacer to prevent the locking collar from fouling the outer flange of the bearing. No end float and no play anywhere. Riving knife lines up perfectly too, though the adjustable internal spacer/lock would probably have managed that without the washer. Onwards and upwards ~ can anyone recommend a blade sharpening company? The one I used locally has closed down. Table -wise I've decided to have a go at fabricating a grid from some mild steel bar that I've got lying around.