Vertical shutter lifts

[softtop]

Does anyone have any idea where I can buy some lifting devices for VERTICAL sliding shutters. These are the ones that are on sash cords like windows but drop down into a box in front of the windows. In order to get them out they traditionally have a couple of round brass fittings that drop down to leave the top fairly flush but can be pulled out to reveal a ring for lifting them up? They need to be fairly slender as well since the shutters are 20mm thick.

There is a picture of the sort of thing here (viewed from above), two of them just below where it says "flap open"
http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Bu ... l-foot.jpg

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Many thanks.

 

[AndyT]

That sounds ambitious!

Do you mean this sort of thing?

- from tbks.co.uk

or this sort of thing but smaller?

(Googling 'architectural ironmongery flush ring pull')

 

[softtop]

I have looked at the second one as an alternative but they don't seem to make them narrow enough.

If you took the first one and rotated the ring through 90 degrees, then allowed it to drop down vertically for when it wasn't in use then that would be exactly what I'm after!

 

[jasonB]

Flush drop rings are what you want

http://www.doorhandles.co.uk/flush-drop ... 71608.html

Jason

 

[softtop]

Jason - you are a star! That's just what I want.

MANY thanks.

 

[scholar]

I would be interested to know what you are making (or repairing?) softtop.

We have these internal sliding shutters on some of the windows in our (victorian) house. They all need renovating (just another item on the infinite round tuit list...). They basically work like big sash windows.

edit: just looked at the link you posted - very useful - where is that from?

I recall that the design of the lift up handles is slightly different to the one posted, although that will clearly do the job - I will have a look when I am back home next week.

cheers

 

[softtop]

I am renovating our house, which was built around 1780. At the front, at a later stage (I actually know it was 1847 as someone has signed one of the sash boxes!) they added some bay windows onto the front of the house, in the shape of half an octagon. Originally they had vertical shutters in them and the pulleys, beading etc. remain, but the boxes had been filled in and the shutters removed. (Also the space where the shutters go was full of earth and crud.) I am going to make some new shutters and repair/replace the boxes so that they can be used again. I have a bit of a thing about shutters...

Anyway, I am intending to do a WIP on this but still sourcing the various bits and pieces I need, and have seen these lifts before but couldn't find them anywhere. Unfortunately it's going to be quite pricey as I have 10 shutters to make (upper and lower for each of the 5 windows) and need to buy weights as well.

Still, I'm sure it will be worth it in the end...

 

[AndyT]

edit: just looked at the link you posted - very useful - where is that from?

I was interested too - there's a very similar diagram and brief description in Ellis's joinery but this link gives more of the book that softtop was quoting from:

http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Construction-3-2/Shutters-With-Cover-Flap.html

 

[NigelMcDonald]

Hi, I am new to this website. We have recently bough a Georgian house that used to have sliding sash shutters. We want to reinstate them as accurately as possible to the original design. Has anyone some photos of the fixings on them and how they join in the middle? I presume that they have an interlocking lip to allow them to be locked together but the only 'drawing' that I can find is the one that you refer to which hasn't any obvious interlocking lip. Any advice would be appreciated. It would be great to put them back although my partner still needs convincing. Thanks Nigel 07712 651235

 

[AndyT]

Hi Nigel

If you are planning restoration work in this level of detail you might find the Brooking Collection useful. It's a huge collection of architectural bits and pieces, preserving items and techniques from historic buildings.

http://www.thebrookingcollection.com/index.html

 

[softtop]

Hi Nigel,

I don't believe they interlock in any way at all - they are quite close together but a parting bead's width apart. I have looked at others and not seen any sign of this. Mine certainly don't.

As regards fixings the sash pulleys are nailed in to a rebate on the sides and then drop rings are set flush as you would expect - see Jason's link above.

PM me if you want to discuss further.

Regards,

Henry

 

[Jacob]

I made some sets of these (copies) some years ago. The main problem was getting heavy enough weights slender enough to pass in the box, as the shutters are much narrower than a normal window. I think I solved this (it's some time ago) by arranging them above and below so you could only move the shutters in sequence, not independently.
The ring pulls were as per link above.
I can't quite recall but I think they were secured in the closed position by some sort of catch or tower bolt.
When down they dropped into a box which extended into the basement. Closed off with a hinged lid which looked like a window board, so you wouldn't know they were there at all, except for the cords.

 

[MMUK]

FWIW,

I don't use the traditional lead weight and cord. Instead I use the spring system as used on uPVC vertical sliding sashes. You can get them for sashes up to 80kg in weight.

 

[Mar_mite]

I've made these shutters before. I had to copy the clients neighbours original ones. These ones moved independently. Like Jacob said, they were only an inch thick so the box was tight for the weights. I used the wide staff bead and square lead weights (they come up a bit narrower)With a thin wag tail they were fine. These too had a cover flap when stowed away. It was a nice job to build.

 

[NigelMcDonald]

Thanks for all of the advice. I was very pleased to find the original weights still inside the frame. I suspected as Henry suggested that the sash shutters might not have had a means of locking them together when they are up but this seems strange as the additional security offered by the wooden shutters being closed and locked together you would have thought would deter break-ins through the windows with the shutters on. I'm less concerned about a break-in than the damage done to the sashes which I've spent months working on. Jacobs suggestion of the catch or tower bolt is interesting and I'd like to see any photos of such a setup. I was also wondering if the purpose of the sash blinders are to retain heat why then they appear not to have the angled surfaces that meet each other as on the normal sashes to help get a good air tight joint. It's an interesting project. Thanks again for all of the responses.

 

[Jacob]

I think I might have put brass sash screw locks in mine, like these here (scroll down}.. I'll drop in and have a look next time I'm passing.
Security was an issue and one of the old ones round the back of the house had been lined with a sheet of galvanised steel, presumably to hinder break ins.

 

[MMUK]

I think I might have put brass sash screw locks in mine, like these here (scroll down}.. I'll drop in and have a look next time I'm passing.
Security was an issue and one of the old ones round the back of the house had been lined with a sheet of galvanised steel, presumably to hinder break ins.

He could at least clean the old paint off the stuff he sells, especially at those prices! :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[dickm]

Had quick look at the portfolio of illustrations for Paul Hasluck's (late 19th century?) "Carpentry and Joinery", and there very detailed drawings of a window with lifting shutters. On this, the shutters don't have a meeting bead, so presumably the occupants just put up with any draught that came through the gap! The box for the shutter counterweights looks as if it had specially made rectangular cross section weights, but there's no detail.
There are some fascinating drawings of joinery in the portfolio - incredibly ornate, but beautifully presented. Wouldn't dream of trying to make any of the items, though!

 

[Jacob]

... presumably the occupants just put up with any draught that came through the gap! The box for the shutter counterweights looks as if it had specially made rectangular cross section weights, but there's no detail....

There shouldn't be any draught as the shutters are internal, unless the windows are badly fitting.
Easy to make your own square section sash weights with a sand casting and lead. Slightly damp builders sand will do - it tends to have just enough clay etc. in it to stay together for a casting.

 

[AndyT]

Had quick look at the portfolio of illustrations for Paul Hasluck's (late 19th century?) "Carpentry and Joinery", and there very detailed drawings of a window with lifting shutters. On this, the shutters don't have a meeting bead, so presumably the occupants just put up with any draught that came through the gap! The box for the shutter counterweights looks as if it had specially made rectangular cross section weights, but there's no detail.
There are some fascinating drawings of joinery in the portfolio - incredibly ornate, but beautifully presented. Wouldn't dream of trying to make any of the items, though!

It's a tremendous book, isn't it? Vivid proof of how complicated and skilfull joinery can be. The full text of the main book is available on-line here http://www.archive.org/stream/cassellscarpentr00hasl#page/n9/mode/2up

and includes the illustrations bound within the book, such as this one, of folding shutters

but frustratingly, not the separate Portfolio. If you have a copy yourself, I'd be interested to see a photo of the illustration you are describing - I think it's Plate L!