Veritas versus Stanley

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motownmartin

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Or expensive versus cheap, what are the differences, people say that you can use a Veritas, Lie-Nielsen or clifton straight from the box without any fettling, what do they mean?

If the blade is a massive difference then can you not fit a Lie-Nielsen blade into another (cheap) plane?
 
The simple answer is that you get what you pay for.

Veritas (or Lie Nielsen or Clifton) are made to much closer tolerances. The soles will be flatter so the plane will work better. The bed will be more accurately machined so that the blade is properly supported in all the right places and so avoid blade chatter. The adjustment mechanism will be made of better materials to a higher standard so it has less backlash and easier to use. The chip breaker will fit accurately where it's front edge meets the blade so that shavings do not jam under it. I could go on but I hope you get the picture. Of course, you might get lucky and get a cheap one where all the varied tolerances work together to produce something that works well - but you probably won't! Even if you do the blade will be thinner and more chatter prone and of inferior steel.

My experience is that if you buy cheep tools you end up buying better ones later.

Jim
 
Should have added that fettling is putting right the things mentioned in my earlier post, although some are not fixable. You can fit a better blade to a cheap plane but they are often thicker and the lateral adjuster will sometimes not work with the extra thickness. If you do go down the cheap plane route, buy a laminated Japanese blade from Axminster. They are no thicker but far superior to a standard blade.

Jim
 
motownmartin":1zf0lw3w said:
mean?

If the blade is a massive difference then can you not fit a Lie-Nielsen blade into another (cheap) plane?

As you must have realised after using my planes, the blade is not the only thing better in a Clifton, LV or LN plane - I have fitted many LN blades into 'vintage' Stanley and Record planes and they made a massive improvement to performance, but at the end of the day, there is still a huge gap in materials and build quality between any Stanley (including their premium planes) and Record and the modern, quality planes.
 
I would have to go down the route of starting with the cheaper planes then wait until Tony wants to sell some of his :lol: I just can't afford to buy any tools for that sort of money, this is why I only drive a Ford and not a Rolls Royce.

Anyone had experience with the Dakota range
 
Martin,

Unless you can spend well over £100 per plane do not contemplate buying new.

There are plenty of old planes around that can be brought up close to the premium ones - needs a bit of work but worth the effort.

As you say a Ford gets you from A-B, a Roller does it nicer.
An old well fettled Roller would be better than a Kia

Even so they all need decent drivers.
Even a Hotley is crap unless the user knows how to sharpen & set the iron.
 
The only plane I use with any regularity is a block plane. I have two; a Stanley and a Veritas.

I bought the Veritas to use in the shop so that the Stanley could become a permanant part of my travelling kit for site work. The difference in performance between them is so great however, that I now take the Veritas with me in my tool box and have not picked up the Stanley for months.

It's not just a bit better - it is on another planet. Others will be able to explain why; suffice to say that it was well worth the money. I will be buying a second Veritas for the shop so that I always have one on the van.

And yes, I do use it on MDF!

Cheers
Brad
 
BradNaylor":3g9oztox said:
It's not just a bit better - it is on another planet.
I think this has underlined the comments that have been made about the difference between the run of the mill standard planes and the quality brands, Brad is not a man to buy things for their looks it is how the work that counts.
 
where tool are conserned you definitly get what you pay for
buy quality tools, take care of them and they last for years
 
well, I work wood for money not for fun, although it is fun. I don't have time to piss away fixing up a lesser tool. I could easily spent 8-10 hours working out all the kinks in an old Stanley and with a new blade and chip breaker (more money) I could get it to work almost as good as a LV, LN, or Cliffy but why bother?? that's more value in time than a new LN would cost. back when I stated and was doing it purely for fun, that time didn't matter. now I got no time (or desire) for tapping plane irons in wood planes and the like. I want to lay down the cash, open the box, sharpen the iron and go to work..
 
It isn't all about the blade (although they are important) it's about how the blade is held and relative to what.

In a cheap plane you have a pressed cap iron screwed to an equally thin plane iron. The act of screwing the two together bends the cutting iron so that it beds on the frog at two points. The frog itself has relatively little surface area for the two points to bed on thanks to the big holes for the screws that hold the frog down on three little pads (often roughly machined) upon which it teeters, as there's three of them there must be three points of contact so it will find a stable position somewhere. Screw it all down good and tight and 'she'll be alright mate'. The sole that the cutting iron protrudes through will be flat to within a couple of mm or so, but if you're only using it to hog off waste material to within a few mm on warped pine whilst gorping at the passing totty and saying 'I'm a chippie me, innit?' and 'nah, beltsander job mate - that ones got a knot innit, innit?' a lot then you will be absolutely fine.

Alternatively if you ever want to be able to produce accurate components for furniture then you will need something a little more refined. Take this Clifton for example:

CliftonCutaway.jpg


The cap iron sits flat on top of the cutting iron which effectively laminates it from above, the loose toepiece is accurately mated with the back of the blade but is an intentionally loose fit with the upper part to prevent any flexing forces from being transmitted through the system of components. This keeps the iron absolutely flat so that it makes full contact with the frog. The iron itself is left soft from the slot up and the cap iron is made from soft mild steel, all of which help to absorb and dissipate vibration. The double iron assembly is clamped down onto a bedrock pattern frog which has the adjustment gubbins hanging out of the back, not only easier to access but also allows there to be more meat where you want it - under the blade. The frog has a single flat accurately machined surface on the bottom, which sits on another single flat, accurately machined surface in the chassis. All of the iron components have been annealed over a two day period and then carefully machined and surface ground at low speeds to keep them cool and prevent stresses from building up in the casting. The sole has been precision ground to +/-0.00075" of flat (twice as good as British standard) in order that it will still be within British standard whether it ends up being used in Arizona or Alaska.

Personally I believe Clifton get the biggest percentage of important things right and they are far from being the most expensive. Lee Valley are certainly the most innovative, Lie Nielsen are the prettiest and Quangsheng are by far the best value for money (close to LN on design but pushing the boundaries with Clico on materials and processes).

The new Stanley sweethearts might be worth a look if you're skint - I get the impression they are starting pull their finger out after the public reaction to the first ones. The new Kunz ones look like a reasonable effort too but they should have started with a whole new brand rather than associating it with their earlier green efforts.

The cars analogy works to an extent ( I sometimes wonder whether Ferarri dealers get calls from people asking if their engines are available separately and if they will fit a 1984 metro without the need to file anything?) but to be honest, cars are much much more closely regulated than handplanes for safety reasons. As far as I'm concerned if it doesn't meet British Standard, it isn't a handplane.
 
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