Veritas Scraper Burnisher for Turners

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Does anyone own or have experience using the Veritas Scraper Burnisher for Turners? It looks like it would be a very handy little thing to have. I've seen CHJ's thread on his home made version (very impressive by the way), but as my expertise does not extend to metalwork I was thinking about buying the Veritas one rather than attempting to botch my own. There does not seem to be anyone in the UK selling it either, if I'm not just being blind could someone point me in the right direction please? If not, are there any alternatives for sale in the UK?

 

[CHJ]

Don't bother, the number of times it would be worth the trouble since I made mine has come to the sum total of Zero.

The burr you get from grinding is just as effective and lasts as long as needed for that final delicate scrape.

There may be one or two turners of exotic materials that swear by the procedure but my venture into the procedure went into the "Seemed a Good Idea at the Time" draw very quickly.

 

[Dalboy]

The same as Chas I never burnish my scrapers either straight off the grinder or a quick touch up on a credit card diamond card. If you feel the need to have one buy ONE OF THESE and drill a hole in a piece of MDF and poke it through will be a lot easier and cheaper than the one you are looking at.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Don't bother, the number of times it would be worth the trouble since I made mine has come to the sum total of Zero.

The burr you get from grinding is just as effective and lasts as long as needed for that final delicate scrape.

There may be one or two turners of exotic materials that swear by the procedure but my venture into the procedure went into the "Seemed a Good Idea at the Time" draw very quickly.

Thanks for the input Chas. Only trouble is that I use a Tormek and not a traditional grinder, so sharpening won't heat up the metal enough to bond bits of the grinding wheel to make a burr. Don't get me wrong, I do get a burr with the Tormek but I don't think the burr is as effective as from a grinder, hence thinking about a burnisher.

The same as Chas I never burnish my scrapers either straight off the grinder or a quick touch up on a credit card diamond card. If you feel the need to have one buy ONE OF THESE and drill a hole in a piece of MDF and poke it through will be a lot easier and cheaper than the one you are looking at.

Thanks for the input Dalboy. That may be a good shout as a cheap workaround, might give that a go!

 

[Glynne]

I have one (inherited) and would echo the last 2 comments. Can't remember the last time I used it so if you're really desparate for one, PM me with an offer.

 

[chipmunk]

+1 for the comments of others.

FWIW I pretty much always hone the burrs off scrapers anyway - as advocated by Chris Stott.

I have my doubts whether a flimsy burr can last longer than first contact for turning and it's the underlying edge that does the cutting when a scraper gets used.

So, I'd have thought a good edge from your Tormek is likely to do just as good a scraping job as a burnished edge from the burnisher.

HTH
Jon

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks for the replies. Well having heard the general consensus I've decided to take all your advice and not buy it. I will however get a standard burnisher (a lot cheaper too) for odd jobs and maybe try using it in a simple jig for curved scrapers if I feel the need to. I appreciate the input, thanks!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wouldn't hold out much hope for the life expectancy of all the billions of HSS drill bits out there if it were possible to turn the edge of an HSS scraper in a few seconds by hand. :? :lol:

 

[Vulcan]

Apologies for resurrecting a very old thread but it came up on an internet search. It seems that at least 75% of those that have tried this technique didn’t get any benefit from it. It also seems that the other 25% seem to like it - a lot. One guy in America contacted Veritas due to his lack of progress and after given specific instructions (in the manual) was very pleased with the result. I bought a replacement Veritas 10° carbide pin and mounted it in a metal plate to give it a try. Having just tried the technique with a round nose scraper on some Sycamore I’m a convert. I’ll be resharpening all my scrapers this way in future.

This article gives an insight into the difference between grinding and burnishing.

https://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/scrapers1.html
I should perhaps add that I believe an important part of my initial success is due to me using a belt grinder for sharpening most of my tools. It’s very quick and easy to hone the scraper with a fine grit belt before the burr is formed with the Burnisher.

Instructions for sharpening and using a burnished scraper here:

https://assets.veritastools.ca/Original/10091/20266-veritas-scraper-burnisher-for-turners-c-01-e.pdf

 

[budgie98]

I can't get my head round this:- Only trouble is that I use a Tormek and not a traditional grinder, so sharpening won't heat up the metal enough to bond bits of the grinding wheel to make a burr.

 

[Cobbs]

I can't get my head round this:- Only trouble is that I use a Tormek and not a traditional grinder, so sharpening won't heat up the metal enough to bond bits of the grinding wheel to make a burr.

That's because it makes no sense.

 

[Vulcan]

I can't get my head round this:- Only trouble is that I use a Tormek and not a traditional grinder, so sharpening won't heat up the metal enough to bond bits of the grinding wheel to make a burr.

You don’t need a burr from grinding if you want to use a burnisher. It says in the Veritas instructions to remove it after sharpening. The edge is then honed and the burr is formed by the burnisher.

 

[Paul Hannaby]

You don't need heat to create a burr, it is formed by the edge of the tool rolling over as it is ground away. I create burrs on my tools with a hand held hone - no heat there!

 

[Ed Weber]

The burr from grinding is far weaker than a burr formed by a burnisher.
The burr from a burnisher is drawn out and as a result creates a work hardened cutting edge. The burr from a grinder is just an artifact of the process, just a byproduct. It is initially sharp but is quite weak and wears quickly.
Most turners will wear out either burr in quick fashion so most decide to not put any extra work into it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I was told by a now retired pro turner that it didn't matter which way up you ground a scraper. If you grind the tool face up there isn't any burr, so it can't be that important. He used his tools staright from the grinder and never used burnishers, diamond plates etc.

 

[cmoops2]

That's what I like about this forum - we always benefit from an interesting range of views coupled with practical experiences of a question/issue posed by a member !

In regard to the questions asked by Sawdust=manglitter, I own a Veritas Burnisher and I use it frequently. Because we've heard a wide range of views ranging from 'need a burr, to 'don't need a burr', the outcome of that is simple - those in the 'need a burr' camp need a means to produce a burr, and those that 'don't need a burr' (he says standing on the cliff-edge) use plenty of abrasives ...

Phil Pascoe relates that a retired pro turner told him that he used the scraper straight off the grinder and that is the practice of many. There is also the 'grind once, hone many times' (until the edge of the tool demands a re-grind) persuasion and, in my opinion this method, while producing results, involves the production and management of a burr that is intrinsically fragile from the outset.

For those who regularly use cabinet scrapers (and actually know how to 'turn' a burr), they understand that the burr is formed by a mechanical process. The burr on a cabinet scraper is not fragile and therefore endures longer than one produced 'fresh off the grinder'.

Let's now turn our attention to use of the woodturning scraper and question its actual use - this ranges from (another standing on a cliff edge moment coming up !) those that actually don't 'turn' wood but simply employ the scraper to change the shape of a piece of timber, to those who understand that it has to be used in a targetted manner. Those that understand 'how' to use the scraper, and also know 'when' to use this tool, know how to prepare and maintain it, and also know how to 'tailor' the burr to the type of wood being turned. Production turners generally don't have the time to refine burrs (or even make heavy use of the scraper at all). Those who believe in getting the best finish 'off the tool' (I'm one of them) rarely use abrasives at the coarse end of the grit range - they use the scraper (in various blade widths and profiles) to refine cuts, and to deal with 'troublesome' grain.

So, to finish off, does the Veritas Burnisher work ? Yes it does - but I must admit it took a bit of trial and error to get it to work well. Firstly, it MUST be securely mounted to a surface as 'leverage' is used to turn the burr. I intially screwed it to a bench top but found swinging the scraper in the horizontal plane awkward. I then secured it to a vertical surface (at varying heights) and that too was 'awkward' but for different reasons. In the end, I now have it secured to an angled block set on a vertical surface around shoulder height. I frequently manage to 're-set'the burr with a single sweep in one direction followed by one in the other direction. Because I have reason to change to profile of my scrapers occasionally (to suit the job at hand), this is the only time that they see the grinder ...

 

[Robbo3]

I used to use a Veritas Scraper Burnisher on my smaller tools. Perhaps that's because I haven't the wrist strength or the right technique to be completely successful with the larger ones.
The point is somewhat moot since I started grinding a negative rake on my scrapers which are much easier to use & seem to last longer before they need a touch up with a diamond file.

Edit: spelling (thanks Phil P)

 

[Vulcan]

This is an interesting article I feel may be relevant to the conversation?

https://alanlacer.com/page-4/page-14/
Alan Lacer also wrote another article that has close up pictures of tools straight from the grinder and the roughness of the edge was quite surprising.

What I feel has been a significant change over the years is the number of turners that now have access to belt grinders. These machines have a distinct advantage in some ways in that you can quickly change the grit from anything from 40 grit to 3000 grit whilst maintaining the same geometry. They even have the facility to fit leather honing wheels or belts.

It’s early days for my use of the Burnisher but so far I’m pretty impressed. In some ways it surprises me that so many that have tried it dismissed it pretty quickly. It leaves me wondering if they correctly generated a suitable burr in the first place?

I’ve sharpened a friends scraper with a burnisher and await to hear how he gets on with it.