Veritas MKII honing guide

[pidgeonpost]

Just wondering how any other users get on with this guide. I've recently bought one, and am having major problems sharpening chisels. The problem I have is preventing the chisel from moving in the jig. I have followed the literature carefully, but all too often when the blade is biting well on the stone (a DMT fine grade continuous diamond), the blade creeps to one side in the jig resulting in an uneven bevel.
Initially I put this down to the small area being gripped on the smaller bevel-edged chisels, but I have the same problem on a 3/4" firmer chisel.
I have done my utmost to ensure that the tightening is done evenly, and that the clamping bar pulls down parallel, but all too often slippage is occuring. As a test, I find that even with the knurled knobs tightened as firmly as I can by hand it takes only a small amount of finger pressure to move the blade sideways in the guide.
Anyone else had problems with this please folks?

 

[engineer one]

yes it kind of is a problem, but has been talked about before, the thing is to use the chisel to sharpen, not the jig

by that i mean hold the chisel, and not the jig when you move up and down the stone the dc method of a finger or two on the front of the chisel,
and another two around that part after the jig seems to work well for me.

the problem with any jig that has two screws is getting the tension the same on both sides. but remember it is a jig guide, and not the sharpening system so hold the chisel or plane blade itself, not the roller device.

paul :wink:

 

[Alf]

Hi PP,

Well if it's happening with a number of different chisels we can possibly put aside the problem of convex fronts and backs being the problem, but just in case try clamping the chisel off centre in the guide (clear of the central solid area on the clamp) 'cos I found that helped. Presumably you're putting the pressure on the chisel towards the bevel end, rather than holding the honing guide? That's the two things that immediately spring to mind.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Handrubbed]

My impression after much prior discussion on this topic is that the MKII is not as well suited for chisel honing as it is for other honing jobs. It still is the best guide out there, but I default to the Eclipse when it comes narrow chisels. In my case the gradual taper of the LN chisels prevents the MKII from getting a good grip. I have to admit that I am really intrigued by LN's upcoming jig that supposedly will use the side sharpening technique. If you are not familiar with this, side sharpening orients the iron 90 degrees to the sharpening stroke (think of filing a hand scraper). Not sure how this would work with a cambered edge.

 

[Anonymous]

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[JesseM]

I think the problem at least with the grip is two-fold. First the registration flexes when you tighten it down with narrow chisels. And second the registration area is narrow and slippery. I taped a piece of 100 grit sandpaper to the registration to increase the friction. It holds pretty good now. The other issue with the flex is trickier. If you center the chisel and tighten exactly equally on both screws it should sit flat. Unfortunately it is easy to overtighten on one side than another, I usually compare the number of visible threads on the screws to see if they are equal. I have sharpened down to a 1/4" chisel with it with no problems.

I forgot the mention the uneven screws tend to rotate the chisel ever so slightly thus putting the blade at a skew.

I have a MKII power sharpener as well and the registration jig has the same problems with flexing. Slipping isn't as much of an issue though.

 

[pidgeonpost]

First, apologies for not searching the forums on this. I now see that it was covered in some depth when the problem was raised by Mailee a couple of months ago.
In response to those who kindly replied....

Engineer one - initially I was holding the chisel rather than the guide (but read on...).

Alf - I've had the problem on new Ashley Iles butt chisels, old Marples ones, and an old firmer chisel. Guess I'd have to be unlucky if they were all out of true (though not impossible).

Mr Grimsdale - I do intend to get better at hand sharpening, but having bought some new chisels I intended to whack all my chisels through a honing guide to get my bevels true in the first place (then screw them up later probably).

Jesse M - I agree that the clamping area is 'slippery', and that's a good idea about the sandpaper - I was wondering what to try next.

Meanwhile I emailed customer services. They replied that 'The clamping jaws of the MkII Honing Guide 05M0901are designed to be slightly concave along their length. Being concave they should grip the blade at the four corners of the blade. The blade should be mounted in the center of the jaws using the scale on the top jaw. The jaws should be closed as close to parallel as possible and with equal pressure. The brass-knurled knobs should be tightened down with sufficient finger pressure to hold the blade securely. During use, the paint will get removed from the jaws, which will help with gripping of the blades.
Additionally they sent two jpgs to show how the guide should be held, and that is with your two thumbs low down at the rear of the guide, and your two forefingers right down on the very front of the chisel.
I can't help wondering if I'd put the same amount of time into practicing my hand sharpening technique as I've put into trying to use this guide I wouldn't actually need it :?

 

[Bean]

pidgeonpost

Its a good sharpening guide, keep on trying. I sufferd the same problems for a start and did as Alf has already suggested.
Whilst theory would suggest that the centre of the clamp is best place to put the chisel, I have found that bu offsetting the chisel it gripped well.

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

snip

I can't help wondering if I'd put the same amount of time into practicing my hand sharpening technique as I've put into trying to use this guide I wouldn't actually need it :?

Lot of people have come to the same conclusion. Still a majority committed to the struggle with honing guides - I made the same mistake for many years.

cheers
Jacob

Interestingly enough, Jeff Gorman, a man trained in the highest tradition of English craft made the opposite journey.


http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... =1#message

I had the good fortune to be
trained at Loughborough College, Leicestershire, England when
Edward Barnsley, son of Sidney of the 'Cotswold Tradition', was
visiting lecturer and set the design and technical standards. He
was preceded by Peter Waals, formerly Ernest Gimson's foreman. We
had Cecil Gough, formerly of Sir Gordon Russell's Broadway
workshops as lecturer in the workshops. Presumably, you know
something of the Brit A&C movement and appreciate the relevance of
the name-dropping.

http://www.amgron.clara.net/sharpeningp ... ndhone.htm

He finally moves to jigs:

Honing Jigs I hope it is evident that one need not be too fussy about grinding angles providing that they are less than the intended honing angle, but it seems to me that there is little point in careful consideration of honing angles unless they can be reproduced pretty exactly. After many years of un-guided honing I know just how unreliable this can be so I'm now a fervent convert to honing with the aid of jigs.

And he was certainly a practised hand at hand honing before he made the change:

http://www.amgron.clara.net/sharpeningp ... ndhone.htm

For the first seventeen of my woodworking years, I had to maintain a kit of 20 jack planes plus a trying plane, smoothers and 60-odd bench chisels. Hand honing had to be the order of the day, but I never felt I had a consistent bevel angle. Furthermore, I was spending too much time on some edges.

BugBear

 

[engineer one]

obviously jacob will never agree, but like bugbear i think we must stop whipping this clapped out old nag and accept that each of us must use the method which in the end, works for us. :twisted: :idea:

paul :wink:

 

[Alf]

I'll give this nag another bash and suggest that a policy of either/or is a fool's errand - have both strings to your bow; they'll likely each offer an advantage over the other at some point.

Cheers, Alf

 

[engineer one]

worryingly alf you and i agree again, at different times you have different needs, and should not abandon either. =D> :-k ](*,)

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

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[dedee]

Wot's the difference between quoting da Vinci or Gorman?

Andy

 

[Anonymous]

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[engineer one]

actually anyone quoting da vinci may not be quoting the master since many of his papers were destroyed soon after his death, and a lot of what we have now is imperfect translations of oralhistory from others' memories.

as a great fan of the davinci designs, i respect his abilities, but not some of the words accredited to him.

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

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[David C]

I am extremely vexed by the ludicrous prejudice against honing guides, so frequently expressed recently. They are not a mistake.

Jeff Gorman is a superstar, one of the few authors who rigorously describes and critically analyzes different methods of going about standard woodworking tasks. Many versions of "traditional methods" consist of cant and old wives tales. We benefit hugely from questioning some of these.

I have taught hundreds of people to obtain edges as sharp as mine on the first day of my courses.

A chisel or plane blade, either straight or cambered takes no more than 3 or 4 minutes including putting stones away, washing hands and oiling tool.

We also do freehand sharpening when necessary.

David Charlesworth

 

[Alf]

worryingly alf you and i agree again

You're worried...?! :shock: 8-[ :lol:

Cheers, Alf