Veritas Mk II

[mailee]

Just bought one of these Veritas honing guides and while trying to hone one of my 1/2" Marples red and yellow ones it keeps slipping out of 90 degrees? Am I using it wrong or putting too much pressure on it? Is there some way of clamping it tighter? I know ALF tested one of these here but didn't mention much about chisels slipping. :?

 

[paulm]

Hi Mailee,

I had a similar problem a couple of times and I figured out that I was tightening one side of the retention bar too far before doing the other side such that it was only really gripping on a corner of the chisel rather than evenly across the back of the chisel.

Don't know if that might be the problem for yourself ?

Cheers, Paul.

 

[mailee]

Hi Paul, I am almost sure I was tightening the holder equally each side. The problem is you can't just push it together onto the blade to start it off as the knurled nuts sit in a recess. It seemed to work fine with the wider blades but half inch and below tend to slip a bit. I found that holding the chisel instead of the guage made matters a little better but I still had to be careful. Thanks for the reply. :?

 

[engineer one]

hi there i too had this problem at the beginning and talked with rob lee about it.

rather like with the tormek chisel holder, there is always going to be the problem of trying to tighten two nuts exactly to exactly the same tension.


i have thought to find some bits of another piece of steel to ensure that the tension between both nut pillars is the same, but not yet got round to it.
i do think a spacer might well be the long term answer.

paul :wink:

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Mailee

Check that the back of the blade is flat or whether there is a high point. Problems of the type you describe are mostv frequently due to the blade pivoting on a high point. (I imagine that this is more common among polished chisels, such as Two Cherries - just a thought. I have no experience of these chisels but have just been flattening the backs of a similar set for a friend, and the cambers there are very evident).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

This is where side clamping Eclipse type clone comes into its own.

Quicker and simpler to set up.

Better grip on tool.

Only £5.50 ish from APTC.

David C

 

[Alf]

And there I was thinking I'd covered chisels slipping pretty well:

However, with some other chisels, particularly older, bevel edged ones, wide and narrow, I had some swivelling problems. I think it’s to do with them being not ground perfectly flat on their faces (the bevelled side) - whether from manufacture or wear with age I don’t know. I fiddled about a bit with them, and found they were held much, much better if they were placed off-centre in the blade clamp. My suspicion is the surface of the clamping bar may make the difference. In the centre the surface is level right from front to back, whereas on either side only the front and back “rim” bears on the blade, which seems to give better grip. I don’t know, but it does seem to work better off-centre; my only minor concern being how much that might effect the clamping set up over time.

Worth a try, if you haven't already.

Cheers, Alf

 

[mailee]

Hi ALF, Yes I have now tried that and it works thanks. I must have missed that part on my first reading of your post. I went back and re-read it again and found it so gave it a try this morning and just as you stated it didn't slip. So long as I didn't become too brutal with it! :lol: I also found that if I hold the chisel insted of the guide it helps too. Many thanks for the replies everyone.

 

[bugbear]

I also found that if I hold the chisel insted of the guide it helps too.

Aah. No. If you'r trying to provide the "driving" force via the guide, you're pushing the design beyond where it was meant to go.

It's a guide, not a machine. Pretend you're hand-honing (you know, "proper sharpening" :evil: ), but with a trust friend keeping the bevel accurate.

It's a "guide" not an "enforcer".

BugBear

 

[David C]

well said,

the only place to apply force/effort is on the chisel just above the ground bevel, with a pair of fingertips or one fingertip.

Force applied to the guide is counterproductive and unnecessary.

David C

 

[Noel]

Two thumbs on the guide and two forefingers just above the bevel works well for me.

 

[mailee]

Noel that is just how I was using it when it slipped! I assumed that this is the way to use it looking at ALF's photos in her posting. I have now added a couple of washers under the thumbscrews and taken them out of the recesses so I can 'feel' when the blade is clamped flat across the back and it seems to have worked for me. Many thanks for the info guys.

 

[Alf]

It probably depends on how much presure you're using and where; difficult to convey in photos. One of the things I find a bit less-than-ideal about the MkII is the sheer weight of the thing - it's a knack to get enough control on the guide to move it where you want it while still having the primary effort directed towards the bevel. Fine if you're running the thing up and down your stone like it's on rails, but if like me you prefer to distribute the wear a little, it can be a major PITA. I don't turn back with relief to freehand honing just to get some erroneous feeling of superiority 'cos I'm doing it the "proper" way, ya know. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[mailee]

Yes ALF I agree it is a little heavy. I too like to distribute the honing rather than run up and down in lines. I envy you your hand honing but I just can't seem to get the hang of it and I have tried and tried and tried! Hence the need for the guide. I think I have too much rock and roll in my arms.

 

[Alf]

Fwiw I found the best first step to freehand honing was a good hollow grind first - makes it much easier to feel where you're putting the bevel. And it's not as if I don't use guides occasionally, principally for the picky blades like shoulder planes, just I'd go nuts doing it all the time for bench planes and so forth.

Cheers, Alf

 

[ydb1md]

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And 4 out of 5 neander woodworkers! :lol:

As to honing guides, I like the Veritas MkII honing guide but I don't use it exclusively. When I'm honing chisels and I want the support of the wide roller, I use it. When I'm honing a really wide blade and want to guarantee that it's square, I use it. When I'm touching up a blade while I'm working, I grab the eclipse-style side clamping guide. Much less fiddling to set up . . .

 

[mailee]

I did originally try the Eclipse guide but it wouldn't grip my chisels at all! they all seem to thick for the recess. Hence the reason I went for the Veritas. :wink:

 

[David C]

Mortice and firmer chisels can be rested on the bars and gripped well by the squareish edges, they dont have to be in the grooves..

Appropriate new projections are easy to establish.

best wishes,
David C

 

[ydb1md]

Mortice and firmer chisels can be rested on the bars and gripped well by the squareish edges, they dont have to be in the grooves..

Appropriate new projections are easy to establish.

best wishes,
David C

That's exactly how I honed my Ray Iles EMC.

 

[ivan]

From the above it seems I'm all back to front.

I always use thumbs for maximum pressure, with the heavy stroke moving away from myself. With the Mk2 it's thumbs as close to bevel as possible (maybe on top of each other) and 1st fingers lightly on the guide to draw it back. Is this the wrong way round for some reason?