Veritas marking gauge looses its setting

[Lefley]

try this link to fix your veritas. A lot more constructive post then, " I wouldn't waste your time on a veritas marking gauge" lol.

 

[Trafalgar]

If you're marking a real piece of wood, to go into a real project (not spending a weekend playing with test boards) and a gauge fence slips you're going to leave a mark, potentially down the entire length of a long component, that you may not be able to remove within the confines of the planned thickness of the workpiece. This is no "oh, well, let me stop and fix my gauge" moment. You may have ruined a crucial workpiece meant for a crucial place in the project, said workpiece costing four times the amount of some gauge if not more.

The chance I'm going to "fix it" and risk it happening again is virtually zero. It would be idiotic to gamble on it happening again.

"This gauge no longer holds a setting..." "Buh-bye gauge." The first requirement of a gauge is that it holds where it is set. The second is that it has a facility to impart a mark on the wood -- pin, knife, wheel, or pencil.

All the video confirms is that the tool is fatally flawed -- the style, design, execution, materials used, and brand (same as the OP's). This should be the takeaway.

 

[Ttrees]

It ain't a fatal flaw though, it's just a tool design what's on a journey to becoming
the standard affair.

Tom

 

[Jacob]

If you're marking a real piece of wood, to go into a real project (not spending a weekend playing with test boards) and a gauge fence slips you're going to leave a mark that you may not be able to remove within the confines of the planned thickness of the workpiece. This is no "oh, well, let me stop and fix my gauge moment." You may have ruined a crucial workpiece meant for a crucial place in the project, said workpiece costing four times the amount of some gauge if not more.

The chance I'm going to "fix it" and risk it happening again is virtually zero.

"This gauge no longer holds a setting..." "Buh-bye gauge." The first requirement of a gauge is that it holds where it is set. The second is that it has a facility to impart a mark on the wood -- pin, knife, wheel, or pencil.

All the video confirms is that the tool is fatally flawed -- the style, design, execution, materials used, and brand (same as the OP's). This should be the takeaway.

I used to spend a day or more marking up for e.g. 5 sash windows. An unreliable gauge would be a disaster.
The trad woodies are 100% reliable and much nicer to use. There doesn't seem to be any point (no pun intended!) at all, in these expensive gadgets.

 

[Trafalgar]

I used to spend a day or more marking up for e.g. 5 sash windows. An unreliable gauge would be a disaster. The trad woodies are 100% reliable and much nicer to use.

It's amazing to me how many people in the thread don't get how devastating a gauge losing its setting can be and just toss it off as a minor inconvenience.

I wish I had the luxury of laughing a mistake off, just order more wood, psyche intact, wallet not dinged, valuable time not lost, no big deal. Is that even real woodworking, or just throwing unlimited resources at something until a completed project emerges by sheer inertia of the money and time spent on it?

 

[Ttrees]

Who's making excuses though?
Should what @Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) have mentioned with the Titemark's dual locking screws
even slipping once, be known... then the design of these type marking gauges needs some attention.
I got my cheapo before the Veritas, as two old woodie types what was knocking about gave me multiple lines, (sorry can't remember what type or manufacturer they were)

It was possibly just a lil niggle with them, and probably coulda been sorted.

 

[Jacob]

This is my collection.
The Marples mortice and the plastic knobby one were both new about 50 years ago. The others just car boot pick ups etc. Total cost about £30 perhaps.
All totally reliable and well used, though I don't bother with the wedged ones.
It's handy to have several on the job, one for each setting you need, so you don't have to readjust until the job is finished and in case you find a mark has been missed or misplaced.
I had one where I shaped the face to a radius to mark from the inside of a curve but it seems to have been lost.
4th from left has the tip trimmed off to get the pin mark closer to something or other on a job long since forgotten.
They are excellent and a pleasure to use! Maintenance free except a wipe of linseed oil is always a good idea. Don't need sharpening as the trailing action keeps the pins polished and sharp.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Reading back over my earlier post, it comes across (to me) that the knobs on the wheel gauges tend to loosen. That is not what I intended to convey. I should have stated that they are generally fine with finger tightening, but may come loose if you do not tighten sufficiently. If you lack the strength to do so, use the plastic-jaw pliers. I use them also when a gauge is set up and the setting will be used over a few days. I think that the larger knobs on the Japanese gauges are easier to tighten as they are easier to grip.

I would not have wheel gauges, and as many, if I did not believe in their value as precision tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[tibi]

T

try this link to fix your veritas. A lot more constructive post then, " I wouldn't waste your time on a veritas marking gauge" lol.

Thank you very much, I will watch it.

 

[Ttrees]

Looks a good way to make the problem worse to me.

 

[Jacob]

The "Veritas Dual Marking Gauge" is interesting. It has three little knobs to go wrong instead of just one. It could have had five if it also had the micro adjusters. Can't have too many brass knobs!
At least they have recognised their knob prob and sell a little extra gadget ("shaft clamp") to keep the dual rods together with less slippage, hence the third knob.
It'd be hopeless as a Mortice Gauge as you'd have to stop and turn the wheels to face the other way to move from mortice to marking tenons, which is presumably why they can't really call it a "Mortice" gauge.
All in all it's a design disaster.
The normal mortice gauge (see photos above for for two typical examples) has no knobs at all but just one screw - this is because it is under the body and a sticking out wing nut could be a prob. The slotted steel screw bears on to a button inside and locks all three pieces together at once (the shaft, the body, the slide with the second pin).
The slide may have a knob adjuster but it isn't necessary to lock it - it's all done with the one screw.
It works really well and I've used them for many hours without any issue - except if you pull it all apart for any reason then you could drop the button and lose it.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/veritas-dual-marking-gauge/

 

[Inspector]

Here you go Jacob. Some new and innovative marking gages that Lee Valley are having great success with. Even you can't argue about their brilliance and practicality.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-dodeca-gauge
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-caliper-marking-gauge
Pete

 

[tibi]

Here you go Jacob. Some new and innovative marking gages that Lee Valley are having great success with. Even you can't argue about their brilliance and practicality.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-dodeca-gauge
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-caliper-marking-gauge
Pete

I would add this one. You can sharpen all your edge tools to the same angle at once. It has never been easier. And I know that Jacob loves sharpening jigs. The only caveat is that you need to use gravestone for sharpening, as for some people, it needs to be really wide to accommodate all their chisels and plane blades.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-honing-guide-mk-xxxxii

 

[Jacob]

I would add this one. You can sharpen all your edge tools to the same angle at once. It has never been easier. And I know that Jacob loves sharpening jigs. The only caveat is that you need to use gravestone for sharpening, as for some people, it needs to be really wide to accommodate all their chisels and plane blades.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/afd/veritas-honing-guide-mk-xxxxii

Yebbut only 5 brass knobs? They could have added a couple more for luck, or perhaps you have to buy them as add-ons?

 

[tibi]

Yebbut only 5 brass knobs? They could have added a couple more for luck.

Yes, you are right, we should define a new measurement unit KPI. It stands for knob per inch.

 

[mwinfrance]

You could invert that.

 

[Trafalgar]

The "Veritas Dual Marking Gauge" is interesting. It has three little knobs to go wrong instead of just one. It could have had five if it also had the micro adjusters. Can't have too many brass knobs!
At least they have recognised their knob prob and sell a little extra gadget ("shaft clamp") to keep the dual rods together with less slippage, hence the third knob.
It'd be hopeless as a Mortice Gauge as you'd have to stop and turn the wheels to face the other way to move from mortice to marking tenons, which is presumably why they can't really call it a "Mortice" gauge.
All in all it's a design disaster.
The normal mortice gauge (see photos above for for two typical examples) has no knobs at all but just one screw - this is because it is under the body and a sticking out wing nut could be a prob. The slotted steel screw bears on to a button inside and locks all three pieces together at once (the shaft, the body, the slide with the second pin).
The slide may have a knob adjuster but it isn't necessary to lock it - it's all done with the one screw.
It works really well and I've used them for many hours without any issue - except if you pull it all apart for any reason then you could drop the button and lose it.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/veritas-dual-marking-gauge/

Stanley made a couple variations (I think) of a two-armed wheel gauge. One, the 91, thankfully did not feature brass. I don't know why anybody would want to resurrect these, even with supposed "improvements."

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The "Veritas Dual Marking Gauge" is interesting. It has three little knobs to go wrong instead of just one. It could have had five if it also had the micro adjusters. Can't have too many brass knobs!
At least they have recognised their knob prob and sell a little extra gadget ("shaft clamp") to keep the dual rods together with less slippage, hence the third knob.
It'd be hopeless as a Mortice Gauge as you'd have to stop and turn the wheels to face the other way to move from mortice to marking tenons, which is presumably why they can't really call it a "Mortice" gauge.
All in all it's a design disaster.
The normal mortice gauge (see photos above for for two typical examples) has no knobs at all but just one screw - this is because it is under the body and a sticking out wing nut could be a prob. The slotted steel screw bears on to a button inside and locks all three pieces together at once (the shaft, the body, the slide with the second pin).
The slide may have a knob adjuster but it isn't necessary to lock it - it's all done with the one screw.
It works really well and I've used them for many hours without any issue - except if you pull it all apart for any reason then you could drop the button and lose it.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/veritas-dual-marking-gauge/

Jacob, you do sprout so much cr@p at times. This is an example of you looking at a tool and deciding how it works. It is clear that you have not picked up or used one.

Firstly, the “little gadget” is not to prevent the rods slipping. It is to lock the rods so that settings hold when you move the fence (forward or back). How many of your wooden mortice gauges allow you to first set the width of the chisel, and then set the depth of the mortice from the side of the stretcher?

Secondly, the wheels do not require being turned the other way. The wheels are set up to face one another. They scribe the outside of the mortice on each side.

Lastly, once the arms are set, a single knob locks the depth.

For those that use this gauge (I have one), the wheels are used one at a time, not together. If used together, the lines would be shallow. Of course, this makes this mortice gauge easy to use as a double cutting gauge, that is, with dual settings.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

....

For those that use this gauge (I have one), the wheels are used one at a time, not together. If used together, the lines would be shallow.

Definitely not a mortice gauge then

Of course, this makes this mortice gauge easy to use as a double cutting gauge, that is, with dual settings.

That explains it! Not a mortice gauge but a "dual" gauge.
How often do I need a "dual" gauge?
Well, never, as far as I recall, I'd just pick up two woodies instead.

 

[Jacob]

.....How many of your wooden mortice gauges allow you to first set the width of the chisel, and then set the depth of the mortice from the side of the stretcher?
....

Sorry Derek, missed this one.
Answer is - that is exactly how all normal mortice chisels work.
You set the chisel width between the pins and then set the face distance from them, if that is what you mean.