Veneer punches.

[recipio]

Folks,
starting to use burl veneers and I am struggling with patching the inevitable holes. Using a veneer punch seems the best option but they are as rare as hens teeth on the 'net. I can only find one small set from the Original Marquetry Company. Has anybody got a source for these or any experience in using them .? Would leather punches work for this ?

 

[Jacob]

Folks,
starting to use burl veneers and I am struggling with patching the inevitable holes. Using a veneer punch seems the best option but they are as rare as hens teeth on the 'net. I can only find one small set from the Original Marquetry Company. Has anybody got a source for these or any experience in using them .? Would leather punches work for this ?

I've used wad punches for various purposes and they'd certainly cut a neat hole in a veneer. Trouble is the patch you cut out would be slightly smaller than the hole you want to fill, due to the width of punch cutting edge bevel. Might be worth fiddling about with and seeing if this could be remedied somehow, they are available in a lot of sizes but not cheap.

 

[recipio]

I've used wad punches for various purposes and they'd certainly cut a neat hole in a veneer. Trouble is the patch you cut out would be slightly smaller than the hole you want to fill, due to the width of punch cutting edge bevel. Might be worth fiddling about with and seeing if this could be remedied somehow, they are available in a lot of sizes but not cheap.

Thanks. As I understand it they should be used on the underside of the face veneer, but on the top face of the patch. The slight taper created gives a snug fit , a bit like Veritas plug cutters. I wouldn't consider using anything larger than about 10 mm as the larger patches tend to stand out. I may just try the Marquetry Company set as the taper looks more pronounced than the leather punches.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks. As I understand it they should be used on the underside of the face veneer, but on the top face of the patch. The slight taper created gives a snug fit ,

That makes sense.

a bit like Veritas plug cutters. I wouldn't consider using anything larger than about 10 mm as the larger patches tend to stand out. I may just try the Marquetry Company set as the taper looks more pronounced than the leather punches.

Leather punches are tough and easily sharpened. I've used them for leather but also in woodwork for marking e.g. the ends of a blank to be reduced to a rod of precise diameter .

 

[Hornbeam]

For smaller pin holes and splits I use superglue and sawdust. I have also been experimenting with coloured wood glue
You can make your own using metal tube. Cut to length and grind the end to a sharp edge all round, then deform the round as an irregular shape stand out less than a perfect circle

 

[Droogs]

punches are traditionally self made. just use different size pipes which you file to have the cutting bevel on the inside and bash about to give non symetric shapes with soft curves which help conceal the actual join in the repair.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

I use Leather Wad punches. but given a decent edge to them.

They can be found in Machine Mart.

 

[recipio]

I use Leather Wad punches. but given a decent edge to them.

They can be found in Machine Mart.

Thanks. Do you hone them on the outside or inside ?

 

[Jacob]

Thanks. Do you hone them on the outside or inside ?

Outside easy. Like honing a gouge - sideways swipe and twist along an oil stone, working all the way round in passes.

 

[Phill05]

If you have anyone close with a metal lathe ask them to turn a steel bar to the hole size you require with a say 5 degree taper to the inside then turn a second tube with 5 degree taper outside I have done this many times and it works well.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Thanks. Do you hone them on the outside or inside ?

Outside.
On the wet stone. Then using a slip, de burr the inside.

 

[Cozzer]

I ran a marquetry business from an arts and crafts studio years ago - pictures, furniture and the like.
Never used a punch of any type. Carefully prick out the shape required using a Swann Morton scalpel, using the hole sides as a template.
Cut from one side, insert 'upside down'.

 

[Trafalgar]

Whatever you decide to do, don't let saving a relatively small amount of money entice you into risking ruining expensive burl veneer with a less-than-stellar repair. That said, some antiques that have sold for huge amounts of money had very obvious repairs to their burl walnut veneer. That might not fly on current work.

Not cheap, but they work beautifully:

https://veneersystems.com/product-category/veneer-hand-tools/veneer-punches/

 

[recipio]

Whatever you decide to do, don't let saving a relatively small amount of money entice you into risking ruining expensive burl veneer with a less-than-stellar repair. That said, some antiques that have sold for huge amounts of money had very obvious repairs to their burl walnut veneer. That might not fly on current work.

Not cheap, but they work beautifully:

https://veneersystems.com/product-category/veneer-hand-tools/veneer-punches/

Thanks for that. Unfortunately they are all out of stock. I agree that there is nothing worse than an obvious patch in burl veneer. The main maker in Europe was Ulmia , a German firm but their products seem to have disappeared from the 'net. I have ordered a cheap set of leather punches but have no great expectations. The human eye picks up a circle very easily however well laid the patch is. I will keep searching.

 

[Lefley]

Whatever you decide to do, don't let saving a relatively small amount of money entice you into risking ruining expensive burl veneer with a less-than-stellar repair. That said, some antiques that have sold for huge amounts of money had very obvious repairs to their burl walnut veneer. That might not fly on current work.

Not cheap, but they work beautifully:

https://veneersystems.com/product-category/veneer-hand-tools/veneer-punches/

But not one of them are in stock!

 

[TRITON]

For smaller pin holes and splits I use superglue and sawdust. I have also been experimenting with coloured wood glue
You can make your own using metal tube. Cut to length and grind the end to a sharp edge all round, then deform the round as an irregular shape stand out less than a perfect circle

I think you would use 2, one with an inside bevel, and one with an outside bevel.
Inside bevel cuts the veneer sheet, the outside for the patch.

 

[Hornbeam]

However, after a couple more tries, I noticed a very very faint sign of snipe at the end of the piece. I wonder if it's because of what @Bristol_Rob and @Hornbeam were saying about the tightening of the planer locks

I think you would use 2, one with an inside bevel, and one with an outside bevel.
Inside bevel cuts the veneer sheet, the outside for the patch.

You have to use the same punch otherwise the shape wont be the same
Bike tubing is only 0.7mm thick so if you sharpen on the outside at a shallow ange the size difference between the hole and the patch is minimal

 

[Cozzer]

Crikey!
Ulmia!
Yes, I'd forgotten about them! A German outfit as you say, long gone methinks.
I remember ordering a cutter from them - this would be '90, maybe, just at the start of the recession - and my wife finding out how much it had cost.
"Impressed" she was not!
We'd only been trading for a few months, and I'd completely misjudged the effect that the downturn would have on the public's buying habits. Times - and the Midland Bank! - were hard, so when she caught sight of the amount I'd paid for a single tool, she was bloody livid!
I've just dug it out - the cutter, not the wife! - of the cellar. Have to say the brass hasn't fared very well!

 

[Cozzer]

This thread's really stirred up some memories!
This was regarded as the marqueteurs 'Bible' at the time, written by William Lincoln. Autographed hard back in this case.

Edit - just a thought for the original poster...might be worth contacting the Marquetry Society for some advice re your headache. In my time with them, they counted some really expert craftsmen in their ranks.

 

[Trafalgar]

Crikey!
Ulmia!
Yes, I'd forgotten about them! A German outfit as you say, long gone methinks.
I remember ordering a cutter from them - this would be '90, maybe, just at the start of the recession - and my wife finding out how much it had cost.
"Impressed" she was not!
We'd only been trading for a few months, and I'd completely misjudged the effect that the downturn would have on the public's buying habits. Times - and the Midland Bank! - were hard, so when she caught sight of the amount I'd paid for a single tool, she was bloody livid!
I've just dug it out - the cutter, not the wife! - of the cellar. Have to say the brass hasn't fared very well!

View attachment 157053

Still very much in business: Ulmia.de // Ulmia