Vases and water

[Richard_C]

It seems to be accepted that no finish/sealant or similar will survive lengthy water immersion inside a vase - but if anyone knows of something that does that would be great.

I have lined vases with various things, 22mm copper pipe with an end cap, old plastic bottles and so on but they always constrain the design, in particular flared rim/narrow neck attempts. Recently I played about with using a balloon - coat inside walls with latex glue (copydex), inflate a balloon through the vase neck, later cut balloon at neck level. Seemed OK but after not very long it shrunk back from the walls. I will try again with a non stretchy sandwich bag and see if thats OK despite the inevitable internal creases.

One successful method I have used for a conical vase is to hollow from the base, insert a cut down coke can (63mm) so it meets the narrowing neck then glue a disc into the bottom much like you might do a lidded box if you never wanted to take the lid off. That's OK, but again is a design constraint. I'm also thinking of making in 2 halves vertically, fitting a jar in the hollowed bottom half before gluing and clamping then turning to shape. The neck dosen't need to hold water, it gets wet while you are filling but water only needs to sit in the 'well'.

So the question is - what do others do? Any good ideas for sealing the inside of a vase so it can be used as a flower vase rather than a dry bud vase? I don't use 'exotics', preferring British or European hardwoods like Beech, Ash, sometimes Oak.

 

[Myfordman]

Have you tried expoxy vacuumed into the wood? Not something I've done but then again I'm not a turner but it works well with vacuum lamination and veneering projects I do.
A bit of improvisation with a discarded fridge compressor and pressure cooker might be worth a punt if you like experimenting.

 

[Stigmorgan]

Just coat the inside with a resin. I've used fibreglass resin from halfords in the past to waterproof a few plant pots and they're still fine.

 

[Fergie 307]

Just coat the inside with a resin. I've used fibreglass resin from halfords in the past to waterproof a few plant pots and they're still fine.

Beat me to it, fibreglass resin works well, but you have to work quickly. Or use a retarder additive to slow the setting time.

 

[Jameshow]

Epoxy will glue to the wood better than polyester but is a bit more expensive. £20 / litre.
Some say warming the epoxy makes it thinner and hence soaks into the wood better.

 

[Yorkieguy]

Some turners struggle to turn hollow forms, and one suggestion of the late Mark Baker (ex editor of Woodturning Magazine, is to turn the hollow form in two parts (not in the centre as I've shown in my simple sketch below, which violates the 'golden mean'), is to hollow out two parts from one blank, the spigot the parts together and turn some beads around the joint, with the actual joint in the valley of the beads so that it isn't easily spotted.

If a larger flower vase is desired rather than the traditional 'bud vase' the two portions of the vase could be hollowed out to any sized container - a half pint beer glass for example, of a cut down 330cl lager bottle or whatever.

Mark Baker's book 'Woodturning Projects - A Workshop Guide to Shapes' is first class. In the book, Mark explains why - however nicely turned some objects are - bowls, hollow forms, goblets, finials or whatever, all too often, for reasons that elude us, they just don't look aesthetically pleasing. 'The Golden Mean, also known as the Golden Ratio, the Divine Ratio, The Rule of Thirds' has been known about for thousands of years. It doesn't just apply to woodturning of course, but to art to architecture - the shape of windows and doors, or even which we find some people more attractive then others. None of which is anything to do with making hollow forms impervious to water, so apologies for rambling and dribbling.

Here's Mark's book:

Woodturning Projects: A Workshop Guide to Shapes: Amazon.co.uk: Baker, Mark: 9781861083913: Books

About the 'Golden Mean' in art:

the golden mean in art - Bing images

Apologies for my manky sketch, but hopefully, it illustrates the idea albeit for the sake of simplicity, the shape is wrong and the joint shouldn't be in the centre. As to the 'Golden Mean', the second picture shows a vase turned by Carlin Lindsay who is at the top of her game. Apart from being beautifully turned with veneer inlays, it looks a very attractive shape. That isn't accidental.

Hope these thoughts are of interest.

David.

 

[Stigmorgan]

Beat me to it, fibreglass resin works well, but you have to work quickly. Or use a retarder additive to slow the setting time.

I just use less activator/hardener to lengthen the working time slightly, for added strength you can also mix in some car body filler.

 

[Yorkieguy]

In my earlier post, for the sake of simplicity I omitted to say that if a hollow form is to be turned in two parts and joined horizontally, it makes sense that the joint is spigotted so that the two pieces marry up accurately and that the joint is strengthened. Updated sketch below. It's a useful way of neatly turning the inside of a hollow form rather than trying to hollow it out through the neck. In effect, it's rather like hollowing out two bowls and gluing them together. Anyone who pokes a finger in the neck of such a hollow form to check if it's smoothly turned will find that it is.

To the uninitiated, hollowing tools, like skew chisels, are the work of Satan!

David.

 

[Richard_C]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I can't see me dismantling the fridge to get a compressor to do vacuum epoxy but I will have a go with epoxy resin next time I go near a suitable vendor and mix it with the minimum hardener it suggests. Years since I used any so had forgotten about it - fibreglass re-roof of the pop-top in my VW camper in 1976 I think. No need for the glass in this application. I will let you know in a year or two, can't really say something is waterproof based on a short interval .

Davids suggestion is also viable, slightly removed from my current project of insert can from bottom but similar in concept. Perhaps still a bit design-limiting paticularly if you are after a long tapered neck/top. I do like golden ratio (have a free app on my phone, put in one of the dimensions and the other 2 pop out) and see it as a starting point. Unlike ceramics where you can do the same thing over and over, with wood I find myself adapting to the grain and patterns as I go - the blank sort of tells you how it wants to be. I made a table lamp last year, all planned with the 'waist' according to the ratio but when I got it round the grain changed my mind - it would have been wrong to over-work it. But I'm not production turning, its just for me/friends/family giveaways.

Aside: back in the day - early 70's, a student - spent a lot of time thinking about spiral phyllotaxy in plants. Fibonacci number pop up all the time. Look at a pineapple, count the spikes until you have gone round a full circle, chances are it will be a Fibonacci number. You probabaly know this, but Fibonacci is a series where the next number is the sum of the previous two: 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34 and so on. If you divide each number by the one before it, divide 2 by 1 you get 2, 3 by 2 you get 1.5, and so on you very soon get to a convergence with the golden ratio. 8/5 is 1.6, 13/8 is 1.625, 21/13 is 1.615 ... and so on. Getting closer but never quite arriving. As far as I know the golden ratio was known long before the Fibonacci series.

I agree with David on hollowing and suggest to him that hollowing tools and skews conform to a unique satanic Fibonacci series - the number of times you curse equals the sum of the number of curses the last 2 times you used the tool.

 

[Bob Chapman]

There's more tosh spouted about the so-called golden ratio than anything else in design. Most of what you read about it occurring in nature (shell spirals, pineapples, sunflower seeds, etc. etc.) simply isn't true. Try counting/measuring/whatever and you'll see for yourself.

 

[Jonzjob]

My method

It looks nice with a flower in it too

Simple to do, the glass inserts aren't expensive, gives a bit of practice at inside out turning, easy to take the insert out to clean it and it looks good, to me anyway.

Ooo I nearly forgot to say the the inserts are 1" diameter and a 25mm Forstner bit is a fraction too small so a little easing of the hole is necessary otherwise the glass can become stuch.