Using EU Power Tools in the UK

[AES]

Thanks for the link HappyHacker, very interesting. It gets even more "interesting when you move outside Europe, as I used to do, (frequently) before retiring.

You also say, QUOTE: I am in favour of radials, much less trouble when installing and testing than ring circuits ........... UNQUOTE.

I'm by no means a qualified electrician, (VERY far from it!) but when wiring here, I find the spiders web system really confusing, especially on 2 way light switches, etc! But that's just me (hammer)

 

[MikeJhn]

In France power circuits are restricted to the number of sockets allowed and are protected by a 16amp RCD and are for want of a better description in a straight line, lighting by 5amp, most other circuits are deemed special and are protected by their own RCD of a specific rating for the appliance, all seems a lot safer to me.

Mike

 

[AES]

Yeah Mike, pretty similar here, (today's standard).

But our house, built in the early/mid '60s has big ceramic fuse "cartridges" (not re-wireable like the old UK type). It just means you need a "supply" of 5 amp, 10 amp, and 16 amp cartridges on hand (not that they blow that often - usually when I'm fiddling around doing something I shouldn't be)!

Like UK, we need an "approved" electrician to do the work, or at least to sign it off after he checks.

 

[MikeJhn]

AES

May be an idea to get a set of twin pole RCD's to replace them with? I assume that where you are use twin pole?

The actual wording of the UK Electrical Regulations is "Competent Person" not "approved", I think most of this is perpetuated by electricians protecting their niche end of the market, but as you say if a certificate is required (only for new works and specific modifications) then a qualified electrician would need to carry out the inspection, charge an exorbitant fee, will almost certainly find what they deem to be a problem and charge again to correct it.

Mike

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I seem to remember reading that there are actually tests you are expected to take to prove you are a "competent person" - in which case that is not as straightforward as it would appear.

 

[AES]

I looked at replacing the whole "consumer unit board" thingy Mike, but the electrician in our village (good bloke, let me do all the actual installation and just wired up when, after a 20 year inspection - a MUST here - it was necessary to re-wire my cellar shop last year).

He worked out it was too expensive to make it worth while (for my lifetime, I'm 73 and not sure if I'll make it to 93!) to replace that "thingy" for the rest of the house. But the new shop wiring does have RCDs (it's anyway the "new" standard here - WITH a "proper" CU BTW, no more big ceramic cartridges with their sockets all mounted on to a big wooden "cabinet" door).

Not sure about the actual "approval" situation here, but the bloke who does the job/signs off must appear on an on-line list which the local electricity company supplies. Bit different to UK I think, but part of the "fun" of being an expat is working out the local regs (AND sorting out the often somewhat confusing and verbose "officialese)

 

[MikeJhn]

I seem to remember reading that there are actually tests you are expected to take to prove you are a "competent person" - in which case that is not as straightforward as it would appear.

You are probably referring to Part P which is not a qualification or certification or a requirement to prove you are competent, it is in effect the most simplest of talks/lectures and is a waste of time and proves nothing, you can carry out all of the installation to your own property (if you consider yourself competent) if you wish only needing a sign off by a qualified electrician if you want the certificate stating that it conforms, so it is as straightforward as it would appear. Just in case you doubt my knowledge base, I consulted for a number of years to the CIC and was involved with writing NVQ's for all construction disciplines, including electricians, as I keep up with most of the legislation now days as an external consultant to most of the Health and Safety Associations/Institutions I think I am still up to date.

Mike

 

[MikeJhn]

I looked at replacing the whole "consumer unit board" thingy Mike, but the electrician in our village (good bloke, let me do all the actual installation and just wired up when, after a 20 year inspection - a MUST here - it was necessary to re-wire my cellar shop last year).

He worked out it was too expensive to make it worth while (for my lifetime, I'm 73 and not sure if I'll make it to 93!) to replace that "thingy" for the rest of the house. But the new shop wiring does have RCDs (it's anyway the "new" standard here - WITH a "proper" CU BTW, no more big ceramic cartridges with their sockets all mounted on to a big wooden "cabinet" door).

Not sure about the actual "approval" situation here, but the bloke who does the job/signs off must appear on an on-line list which the local electricity company supplies. Bit different to UK I think, but part of the "fun" of being an expat is working out the local regs (AND sorting out the often somewhat confusing and verbose "officialese)

Similar age and similar situation, but our place in France has a three phase supply and did need updating as I was putting in all the things that the rural french don't use, decent kitchen, utility room, heating, most of the comforts that we in the UK take for granted.

CU before and after pics below.

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

Mike, that _looks_ like one DIN rail per phase -- do I have that correct?

 

[MikeJhn]

Yes and a 30mA trip for each.

Mike

 

[J_Ashley]

More or less on this topic......I just ordered a Metabo vacuum from Amazon that was listed as UK 3 Pin Type G plug. Typically, upon arrival it's turned out to be the european 2 pin plug version!

It was the last one in stock and I got a good deal, so I don't really want to return it. Having read through all the advise here, I'll probably change over the plug to the UK variant in the short/medium term.

However, the vacuum features a power socket to accept power tools, and obviously that is the european 2 pin type too. I probably won't be making use of this feature hugely, and I'm guessing it'd be more hassle to change as it's part of the interface of the vacuum.

Therefore, would relying on a simple plug adaptor for the power tool compatibility be a suitable solution?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Yes.

It will be more mechanically robust to use a Schuko plug with a UK mains trailing socket though. Electrically it makes no difference.

 

[MikeJhn]

Therefore, would relying on a simple plug adaptor for the power tool compatibility be a suitable solution?

Be very wary of using UK plug too EU socket adapters, they can be severely limited on amp capacity, my main workshop is in France and I brought all my tools over from the UK, some of the more powerful machines burnt the adapters internally, the smell gave it away. :roll:

Mike

 

[MikeJhn]

Ah yes the power outlet from the vacuum will be limited on amp capacity also.

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

Fair points, both.

Places like Toolstation occasionally sell tools with 13A plugs clipped onto 2-pin continental ones. I'm not sure this is strictly legal, but it is certainly the case thst such an arrangement will get hot, which is a BAD thing. I usually cut them off and fit a proper 13A plug instead.

Proper Schuko plugs are rated at 10A, IIRC, and neither they nor a trailing (cable mounted) 13A socket have internal fuses. This is a GOOD thing (in this context), as fuses make plugs heat up unnecessarily.

Get a good quality Schuko rewirable plug off Amazon or Ebay, and a British rubber-covered 13A trailing socket, and about 1/2 metre of good quality cable (the thickest copper a good ironmonger will sell you, but flex, not the grey covered twin + earth for house wiring).

That adapter will be good for loads up to 3kW for short periods (e.g. big routers that aren't running continuously), and 2kW for longer periods. But read on...

The amount you can draw from the vacuum's power outlet should be limited by the fuse in the vacuum's own mains plug (as that supplies both the vacuum and the tool you are using). That is 3kW if it is a standard UK plug.

So assume you can run a max of about 1.5kW from the outlet (plus 1.5kW for the actual vacuum). That will be safe and put no undue strain on the electrical bits. if the vac uses less power you have more available for the tool you are using - total officially shouldn't exceed 3kW (or 13A).

You also cannot run 110V tools from the auto-switching outlet, as the necessary big yellow transformer will keep the vacuum on all the time - can't be helped.

 

[AES]

QUOTE: I usually cut them off and fit a proper 13A plug instead. UNQUOTE:

+1 for that EtV.

 

[MikeJhn]

French electricians at their best, metal patress box and no gland nuts, the first I knew about it was when the UK adaptor started sparking, as per French regulations the socket was on a dedicated RCD so that tripped first, letting me know where the problems was, smell of burning plastic anyone.

Mike

 

[J_Ashley]

Thanks for all the feedback. I’m a bit confused by:

Proper Schuko plugs are rated at 10A, IIRC, and neither they nor a trailing (cable mounted) 13A socket have internal fuses. This is a GOOD thing (in this context), as fuses make plugs heat up unnecessarily.

Since this a safety issue and I’m inexperienced with electrics but want to learn to do this myself, I’d like to clarify that I have understood what actions I need to take:

Plug from vacuum to wall/mains
- Remove Schuko 2-pin plug and fit a British 3-pin plug, using the existing cable.
- I assume I want a 13a fused plug?

Vacuum socket for power tools
- Build own adapter to connect UK power tools using; good quality Schuko rewirable plug, British rubber-covered 13a trailing socket, and 1/2m good quality cable.
- Again, do I want a fused plug here? ( I got the impression that I don't/the Schuko plug won't, and the fuse will be in the power tool plug).

In case context provides any better info, the vacuum has a 1400w motor and a 900w Dewalt router is likely to be the most powerful tool used with the vacuum.

Thanks again.

 

[Sideways]

Plug from vacuum to wall/mains
- Remove Schuko 2-pin plug and fit a British 3-pin plug, using the existing cable.
- I assume I want a 13a fused plug?

yes

Vacuum socket for power tools
- Build own adapter to connect UK power tools using; good quality Schuko rewirable plug, British rubber-covered 13a trailing socket, and 1/2m good quality cable.
- Again, do I want a fused plug here? ( I got the impression that I don't/the Schuko plug won't, and the fuse will be in the power tool plug).

As Eric said you need a Schuko plug to go into your vacuum and this won't have a fuse.
The UK training socket won't be fused either.
So your adapter will have no fuse at all.

The UK powertool (900w router) that you plug into the trailing socket will have a british fused 13A plug. It's job is to blow and cut off power to the tool and it's cord in case of a fault (short circuit).
The 13A fuse in the new plug you've fitted to your vacuum does the same thing but it provides protection from faults in the vacuum cleaner flex, the vacuum itself, anything plugged into the vacuum power outlet. There's some overlap here so chances are, if you were to accidentally cut the router's flex with it's own cutter, it would be the fuse in the vacuum cleaner lead that will blow as it's carrying about 6 more amps than the router's plug.

Cheers