Using Bandsaw to Square up timber?

[Friedrich]

Good day, I really enjoy working with handtools mainly however I'm looking to purchase a bandsaw for my projects, This would be my only real powertool after a drill and a sander.
I have searched this forum but haven't found a definite answer, I'm looking to purchase a good quality bandsaw such as Record power bs350s (haven't fully decided).

One of the things apart from all the usual bandsaw uses I want it to do would be re-sawing and squaring up timber , I know these tasks are usually done with a planer/thickneser and a tablesaw but I'm too scared to use a tablesaw and don't want the noise from a Planer+ It would be nice to have only 1 large machine.
However I wanted to know is it actually possible to do these tasks effectively on a good quality bandsaw with a nice & thick blade made for that and good fence/jigs?

-Would I be able to actually take a large board such as 50x200mm and take off 2-3mm off each 4 sides to square it up like you would do on a planer/thickneser?
-Would I be able to take for example 75x150mm large beam and split it in half to get two 75x75beams ?

I fully understand that I won't get as smooth finish as from a planer or a tablesaw but I don't mind going over it with a handplane after that to make it nice- however I want the bandsaw to do the majority of work for me.

Maybe I'm just dreaming things up and this isn't really possible, so wanted to know from users who has access to nice bandsaws which can handle such capacity -what's the reality?
I saw in this video that he's slicing such large logs with ease- but what's the actual quality- that I do not know since that's only an advertisement.

youtube com/watch?v=WZN-B1kQAlk

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rorschach]

With the right blade properly set up and some simple jigs you can most certainly prepare timber on a bandsaw. As you already noted the finish will require extra work with a hand plane but it will be a lot faster than handtools alone.

 

[Stevebod]

..yep, I think a band saw would be most useful. I never really thought I needed one until I recently got my hands on an Aldi cheapie, now I am wondering how I ever lived without one!
if I could only have one power tool then it would probably be a band saw, (would have been a mitre saw, but I guess it depends on what type of work you do). If funds and space permit I would have the best quality one I could afford, and Record would certainly get my vote over most other "budget" makes as they seem to have the edge on quality and worth paying a little bit more than some of their competition. Only constraint is the throat depth that will obviously control the largest bits of wood you can cut. And yes I would expect a good quality blade, (Tuffs), table and fence should be fine for squaring up timber...

..happy tool purchasing....

 

[Chris152]

I'm still in the process of learning to use the Record BS350 I got a few months ago, and which I love using - and like you, I don't want to be using noisy tools if I can avoid it. I'm interested in your question about how far it will go in preparing timber, and to what extent it could do the job of a thicknesser in this - but don't have the answers.

I've learned to re-saw, rip, mitre and cross-cut timber (the latter two with jigs I made) that's already square, but struggle squaring some things that aren't already square, particularly if they are at all big - which as I understand it (I'm new to woodworking) a thicknesser will do. So when I look at a length of (say) 10x2 rough sawn air dried timber in a yard that's twisted a bit along its length, or cupped, or just not straight, I figure that passing it through the bandsaw along the fence will just allow the wood to follow its deviation from straight (if that makes sense) and not become straightened.

So if I'm right, the bandsaw will do some of the tasks of squaring up timber, but not all. And if I'm wrong I look forward to learning how to do these tasks!

edit - also, one thing I didn't factor into my costs is decent dust extraction for the machine. It seems to be pretty hard to come up with a good solution to this and I'm still working on it.

 

[MikeJhn]

Decent dust extraction can be had on a Bandsaw.

Mike

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Mike, that looks great and is exactly what I'm working toward (following your previous advice) - you don't have a picture of what you have on top of the table, do you?

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Friedrich

First - welcome to the forum.

Is there a particular size of project that you will be working on most of all? I'm just asking as it will probably help people with their answers.

Martin

 

[CHJ]

......One of the things apart from all the usual bandsaw uses I want it to do would be re-sawing and squaring up timber ,..........
However I wanted to know is it actually possible to do these tasks effectively on a good quality bandsaw with a nice & thick blade made for that and good fence/jigs?

-Would I be able to actually take a large board such as 50x200mm and take off 2-3mm off each 4 sides to square it up like you would do on a planer/thickneser?
-Would I be able to take for example 75x150mm large beam and split it in half to get two 75x75beams ?

Friedrich, Welcome to the forum , can I imply from your sign up location it will be predominantly pines or firs that you will be handling.

All things being equal then reasonable results can be achieved.

Machine needs to be set up correctly and cutting freely and true.
Long Stock needs to be square and true to start with.
You will need care in Handling and support of Long stock to ensure it stays in true alignment to the fence
Hope that Long stock does not have too rough a grain or defects along its length to influence the blade path.

I personally can't see you achieving a 2-3 mm slice off a face with any guarantee of improvement on Long Stock.

For Short Stock that is not True Square to start with you can true up a face or get a true cut by mounting it on a sledge with appropriate packing and using the sledge, either located in the mitre slot or against the fence.

I personally would expect to get away with results good enough for timber used as 'Rough Sawn' but expect considerable hand planning for anything approaching cabinet work.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I'm sure you can do as you suggest but repeated deep cuts will rapidly take the edge off the sharpest blade and make very slow feed speed necessary to stop the blade wandering. This method is used in timber yards using very large bandsaws with power feed attached and blades 50 to 70mm wide often with TCT tips.
I think your consumption of new blades will be the main drawback. You may not be very keen on circular saws but they are ideal for this job, before splashing out on a planing machine years ago this was my system for squaring up rough timber. Small bandsaws are best suited to lighter work .
Mike.

 

[Alexam]

Welcome to the forum Fredrich.
Good advice already given and you will be able to square from a flat surface with the bandsaw.
Chas has made to point that the bandsaw needs to be tuned well and this is the most important part of getting good cuts.

The Record bandsaws are really excellent and have their 5 year warranty so you will be OK with that. REgarding tuning, the following may help you:-

GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW 'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. However, his updated version also here with improvements - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVyKsbuwZQ

Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHG3R2mEMM) as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brough into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please dont get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.
CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0

Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.
BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

Whenever you have put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-
....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).
That's the first priority before closing in guides and thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.
Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?
Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ?

Are you sure that the tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line and see if teeth are damaged in any way.
Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust will stick in the teeth gullet. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis.

Good luck
Malcolm

 

[MikeJhn]

Thanks Mike, that looks great and is exactly what I'm working toward (following your previous advice) - you don't have a picture of what you have on top of the table, do you?

The problem with something on top of the table is the requirement changes with whatever you are cutting, sometimes attaching the hose on top of the fence is OK, then again you may need the hose on the other side of the workpiece, in front of the blade, behind the blade, you just have to work out what is required for each cut and place the extract accordingly, the corrugated pipe I have is 50mm and fits inside the Axminster fitting and also fits inside 50mm plastic drainage female fittings.

Mike

 

[MikeJhn]

Decided the extract above the table needed a better method of variously placing, the magnetic dial gauge stand seemed ideal:

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

Why do you need any extraction above the table, at all?

I am trying and failing to imagine a set of circumstances, unless the under-table extraction isn't working, thus permitting sawdust to be carried round the whole path of the band.

I've got an extraction point immediately under the table (above the bottom guides), and it is very, very effective for perpendicular cutting. I can't claim credit for this (see other posts on the subject), but it's so good I don't need to bother to use the official port at the bottom of the lower wheel case at all, and only quickly whip the vacuum hose around after a job. There's rarely anything in there though, and next to nothing in the top cabinet either. Using the table tilted is pretty good too, only slightly less effective than when the table is square.

If I forget to connect the hose though, it's quickly obvious how much sawdust it normally removes.

E.

PS: The one exception I can think of is cutting insulating plastics: that makes small statically-charged chips. Even then the under table extraction works pretty well, and it's about 15 secs going round the outside of the saw afterwards. I still get nothing in either cabinet.

 

[powertools]

In my opinion inorder to square up timber using only a bandsaw you would need to start with one face totally flat and work from that to square up the other sides.

 

[powertools]

Welcome to the forum Fredrich.
Good advice already given and you will be able to square from a flat surface with the bandsaw.
Chas has made to point that the bandsaw needs to be tuned well and this is the most important part of getting good cuts.

The Record bandsaws are really excellent and have their 5 year warranty so you will be OK with that. REgarding tuning, the following may help you:-

GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW 'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. However, his updated version also here with improvements - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVyKsbuwZQ

Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHG3R2mEMM) as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brough into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please dont get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.
CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0

Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.
BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

Whenever you have put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-
....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).
That's the first priority before closing in guides and thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.
Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?
Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ?

Are you sure that the tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line and see if teeth are damaged in any way.
Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust will stick in the teeth gullet. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis.

Good luck
Malcolm

Please can we all get to a situation where we can all agree that not all bandsaws are the same. This often promoted idea that the gullet of the blade needs to run in the centre of the wheels of all saws is missleading to say the least.

 

[MikeJhn]

Why do you need any extraction above the table, at all?

I am trying and failing to imagine a set of circumstances, unless the under-table extraction isn't working, thus permitting sawdust to be carried round the whole path of the band.

I've got an extraction point immediately under the table (above the bottom guides), and it is very, very effective for perpendicular cutting. I can't claim credit for this (see other posts on the subject), but it's so good I don't need to bother to use the official port at the bottom of the lower wheel case at all, and only quickly whip the vacuum hose around after a job. There's rarely anything in there though, and next to nothing in the top cabinet either. Using the table tilted is pretty good too, only slightly less effective than when the table is square.

If I forget to connect the hose though, it's quickly obvious how much sawdust it normally removes.

E.

I don't know what you do differently to me Eric, but I get sawdust, bark and shavings on the table top directly off the blade, I assume because of the set of the teeth, there is certainly no room above my bottom guides to put any kind of extraction there, but I will have a go at putting the extra extract I have in that position to see if it makes a difference, it would be more convenient to have this in a static position under the table, will try it and report back what I find.

Mike

 

[Chris152]

Why do you need any extraction above the table, at all?

I am trying and failing to imagine a set of circumstances, unless the under-table extraction isn't working, thus permitting sawdust to be carried round the whole path of the band.

I've got an extraction point immediately under the table (above the bottom guides), and it is very, very effective for perpendicular cutting. I can't claim credit for this (see other posts on the subject), but it's so good I don't need to bother to use the official port at the bottom of the lower wheel case at all, and only quickly whip the vacuum hose around after a job. There's rarely anything in there though, and next to nothing in the top cabinet either. Using the table tilted is pretty good too, only slightly less effective than when the table is square.

If I forget to connect the hose though, it's quickly obvious how much sawdust it normally removes.

E.

I don't know what you do differently to me Eric, but I get sawdust, bark and shavings on the table top directly off the blade, I assume because of the set of the teeth, there is certainly no room above my bottom guides to put any kind of extraction there, but I will have a go at putting the extra extract I have in that position to see if it makes a difference, it would be more convenient to have this in a static position under the table, will try it and report back what I find.

Mike

I re-sawed (right term?) the cupped edge off this piece of sweet chestnut this morning.

Where the dust hit the fence it shot off to the left side of the table and landed where it is in the photo. As far as I can see even extraction directly below the table (I only had an extractor on the factory attachment to the lower wheel housing) wouldn't have significantly altered this, but something above could have caught it? There's a quite a lot of dust/ fragments on the table for a 10 inch length of board, and i guess a fair bit was in the air, too.

 

[paulrockliffe]

That's interesting, my thoughts were similar in that I get next to no dust above the table, so can't see the need to extract there. Where is that coming from, I suspect it's not being cleared from the gullet and being pulled right round the wheels and dropping out of the to of the saw?

Dust extraction perpendicular to the gullet might help if that's the case, though the lower dust port should be doing this fairly well anyway.

 

[Chris152]

That's interesting, my thoughts were similar in that I get next to no dust above the table, so can't see the need to extract there. Where is that coming from, I suspect it's not being cleared from the gullet and being pulled right round the wheels and dropping out of the to of the saw?

Dust extraction perpendicular to the gullet might help if that's the case, though the lower dust port should be doing this fairly well anyway.

The lower dust port's doing its job pretty well, i think, very little dust in the lower housing and no sign of it headed back up with the blade or in the upper housing. And I could see the dust (with spotlight on the cut) throwing straight off the blade onto the fence and off to the left. There was very little to the right side of the cut. I think with thinner cuts the dust heads more easily to the lower housing/ under the table and doesn't hit the fence, so maybe this is only a real issue with re-sawing?

Edit - on reflection, it's probably because the cut was taking just a sliver off the side, and a lot of that sliver just disintegrated and turned to dust with no wood left on the left side to hold it for the teeth to pull down.

 

[Eric The Viking]

...it's probably because the cut was taking just a sliver off the side, and a lot of that sliver just disintegrated and turned to dust with no wood left on the left side to hold it for the teeth to pull down.

I'd guess that was it, too.

The top of the table on mine isn't totally dust free, either, but it's only seconds to whip round with the vac (it really is usually a tiny amount). I've used it for stock up to around 4" thick, not yet boards on edge. I have a p/t for squaring stock now, so if I did, it would only really be cutting for veneer or some sort of inlay. Also I usually use a ZCI, rather than the supplied "holy" one (looks the same as yours), but that doesn't increase the dust up top.

There's a 1" riser block on the table, too, so as to make space for the extraction "port", which is a modified 1 1/4" plastic wastepipe fitting. Olly P-J designed and implemented it (very well IMHO). I can't claim any credit. It's a slight nuisance if I tilt the table, as the virtual "pivot point" is now below the table surface, so I need several purpose-cut ZCIs, but since most of the time the blade is perpendicular it's not a great inconvenience.

If you use the search feature, I posted sketchup drawings last time the matter came up a few years back - it's a bit hard to actually photograph.