Used saws and other tools

[Picalilli]

Hi all,
I was wondering what people’s advice is when it comes to buying used saws, particularly from the point of view of beginners and getting into woodworking. New saws can be quite pricey but there are a lot of ‘vintage’ saws online going for pretty cheap, but what do you need to be looking out for, and are they often more trouble than it’s worth (e.g. being bent, blunt and require sharpening etc)

obviously good quality tools can be quite expensive, and I’m interested to know which tools people think are best bought new, and which are worth buying used online auction sites etc (planes being an obvious example)

 

[profchris]

I'd say start by buying new saws. Old saws are almost certainly blunt, and by the time you've bought files, made a jig to hold the saw while sharpening, learnt to sharpen and fixed your mistakes, you'll have spent a lot of time and effort without cutting anything!

Others will no doubt give you clues about decent budget saws, and once you've made some thing you'll know what you really need or want, and you can tiptoe into refurbishing old saws.

Realistically, for a lot of woodwork you saw nearly to size and then plane or chisel down to final dimensions anyway. So a hardpoint panel saw and a hard point tenon saw, for maybe £10 each, can get you started.

Planes are different - budget new planes often don't work well, or require nearly as much effort to fettle as old planes do to refurbish. Old chisels can be good buys too.

 

[Jameshow]

My favourite saw is sandvick 328.

Spear and Jackson are good everyday saws.
The new tenon saws need the kerf reducing.

You need a saw file and watch some videos. There's a specialist chap on youtube from dorset forget his name...

It's not hard tbh just be patient.

If the saw is well used the teeth might need resetting to stop it sticking. So you'll need a tool for that. I've only found 1 saw out if half a dozen s/h saws I've brought.

If new then I've found the Wickes tenon saw to be great and only £8 as is the toolbox saw.


Cheers James

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks for the replies - I guess I could buy a couple of saws new. Makes things easier in the short term. I got a no 4 Stanley plane on eBay which has cleaned and sharpened up well, and I got a spokeshave too the other day - but was wary of falling into a rabbit hole of just buying loads of second hand tools. Harder to know for sure when you buy online because you can’t see the item first too.

 

[Jacob]

.....you can’t see the item first too.

But if they don't match the description you can get your money back.
The crucial thing with a saw, which you can't see from a photo, is that it should be straight, though a slightly wavy hand saw is OK as long as it isn't badly kinked.
Spear & Jackson are always good and tend to be cheaper because they aren't trendy. They are no different from say Disston, but cost a lot less.
If it's blunt take it to a saw doctor or learn how to do it yourself.

 

[msparker]

For my first saw i went with a cheap new Spear and Jackson one (~£25 for the 12" tenon saw) from amazon and a bahco xxslim file for ~£10. I then roughly followed this and some Paul Sellers saw sharpening videos to convert it to rip, give myself some nice easy-start teeth in the first couple of inches (more rake) and get it good and sharp.

I think this was a pretty good way to go, as by all accounts the building blocks of the modern S&J are actually pretty good, then by tuning it you end up with a nice saw at low cost and learn a lot about saws which will put you in good stead going forward. Its much easier than doing this with a vintage one from ebay which may be bent, have broken or misshapen teeth or other problems which make it a big ask for your first attempt.

A drawback is that once you get into making other stuff you're less likely to want to fettle your saw, so I did the improvements to the teeth, but haven't got around to the handle as other more interesting things have got in the way (and the handle is pretty poorly shaped).

The veritas saws are by all accounts very nice and much cheaper than some of the other premium saws.

 

[Picalilli]

The spear and Jackson ones look like a good starter option for me. The veritas ones look great but still a bit out of my price range right now. I was just reading a Paul sellers blog about the s&j skew back saw actually, which he recommends

 

[deema]

For anyone new to wood work, the first hand saw they normally pickup is normally a in-expensive hard point saw from a DIY store. These saws are fine IMO for rough DIY but for anyone trying to make joints they leave a lot to be desired and can I'm sure put people off.

So, for a grand investment 99p anyone can obtain a saw that with a little time and effort can be as good as the most expensive saws you can buy (again that's my opinion). I put a thread together on what saw to choose, how to do it, the small number of inexpensive toold needed and how long it takes.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...ng-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/#post-1068749

 

[Jameshow]

Have a look at rex Kruger's video on turbo charging the s&j.
I like his and Paul Sellars down to earth style knowledge without being pretentious!

Cheers James

 

[Nigel Burden]

I would second what Deema says about about hard point saws. I have a hard point tenon saw. It leaves a rough edge and is nowhere like as nice to use a my old saw., One handsaw I bought for £2. Admittedly it needed work as the tooth line was anything but even, but the blade was straight and not pitted, although pitting is not a problem unless it is deep or on the tooth line.

Spear & Jackson are good value for about £25. I bought one fifty three years ago when I left school. I have since re handled it as I have small hands and a smaller handle makes the saw easier to use. I used my old cheap saws as sharpening practice. Paul Sellers keeps it simple which is good when your starting out.

Nigel.

 

[Picalilli]

So would something like this for tenon saw be a decent choice:
https://www.toolstop.co.uk/spear-ja...njeXWVNFw20HQtnVp2vr2pX8IBtAEK8xoCoF8QAvD_BwE
and something like this:

https://www.toolstop.co.uk/spear-ja...Mpc87LVbTJV8W1kB0PCHPS-YUjAYHHcxoCQPAQAvD_BwE
they seem fairly reasonably priced - and both say can be resharpened

 

[deema]

With the exception of the high quality saws, you are going to have to sharpen a new machine set and sharpened saw to get a good operating saw. The teeth won’t be set for practical use, they will have too much set, and the only way to reduce it is to sharpen the saw......don’t go down the rabbit hole of either stoning the sides of the teeth of hammering them back.

Have a read through the thread I linked, you will learn more from setting up your own saw, and know when it is and when it isn’t working properly.

 

[Nigel Burden]

Yes, that's the sort of thing and at a good price. The skew back has probably not changed since I bought mine fifty three years ago.

If you buy them it would be worth looking at Paul Sellers' videos on sharpening. He also has a chart on the correct size saw file for the TPI, that is the number of teeth per inch.

Nigel.

 

[pidgeonpost]

I'm only a hobby woodworker, and not a very good one at that, but I'd say start off with S&J or similar. That way if you're having problems sawing you can probably eliminate the saw as the cause.
I have a Bahco 'Laminator' or 'Terminator' or some such - the name has pretty much worn off. It's a Jack of all trades, but still cuts well. I also bought a Stanley Fat Max for cutting lots of rough feather-edge board about 5 years. Rather ill-treated, and has a broken tooth now, but it's a beast. Here it is ripping some short boards out of a bit of 8"x6"x12" air-dried oak that's been sitting in the garage the last 8 years. I've also got a Disston crosscut bought new in the early 70's. I sharpened it last year following one of Paul Sellers videos. It cuts OK but I need to try again. Yes, start new I reckon.
PS, I wasn't ripping that oak for fun - I don't have a bandsaw and my table-saw only has about a 2½" cut.

 

[Jameshow]

With the exception of the high quality saws, you are going to have to sharpen a new machine set and sharpened saw to get a good operating saw. The teeth won’t be set for practical use, they will have too much set, and the only way to reduce it is to sharpen the saw......don’t go down the rabbit hole of either stoning the sides of the teeth of hammering them back.

Have a read through the thread I linked, you will learn more from setting up your own saw, and know when it is and when it isn’t working properly.

I was told on here to remove some of the set you can file the saw sides on diamond plates.

I tried it and it seemed to work.

The 9500r was fine from the factory.

Cheers James

 

[deema]

All that happens when you stone or file teeth is you make them thinner, that reduces their effective edge, increases effort, and wear. It makes sharpening harder, you will have to file off the teeth and start again to sharpen the saw properly. I fully explain the reasons of what to do and not in the thread.

 

[Picalilli]

Thanks again for the advice. I’ll definitely have a read through the thread deema, should be very helpful. I may buy new just to get going but also have a go at sharpening an old saw if I can get a cheap one anyway. I quite enjoy the process of restoring things just for its own sake really!

 

[Jacob]

Must say I have actually stoned a slightly over-set edge on a few occasions! It is sort of instant sharpening cheat. Makes no difference in the long run and you just carry on sharpening as usual.
I've never gone to the trouble of recutting the teeth as 2nd hand saws are cheap, just buy another one if you really need a different pitch.
I admit to being a lazy sod and always after the easy way!

 

[carpenteire2009]

I went head first down the slippery slope of building up a decent hand tool collection many years ago. I have plenty of quality vintage handsaws, all sharpened, set and ready to go but to be honest I rarely use them. The only exception being my old tenon saws which are used regularly. For most of the DIY and woodwork I do I usually reach for the cheap hardpoint saw and if I have a lot of cutting to do I'll be using a table saw or circular saw. If I see a handsaw going for very little i might pick it up - I've already spent a small fortune on all the various files, saw sets etc that I need to rehab it anyway!

I think the best buys as regards vintage tools are:

Handplanes- plentiful supply about and the vintage Stanley or Record are far superior to anything produced by those makers today. There is something very satisfying about using a sharp, finely tuned plane to smooth a board or bring to to final dimension.

Chisels- good used vintage chisels can be tricky- a lot of the time the backs are not flat or they've been badly abused. If you can find good examples they are worth buying.

Marking and Measuring tools- gauges, sliding bevels etc are good too, if not worn out.

Hammers- old hammers were nicely forged and usually cheap enough. Making replacement handles is a good skill to learn.

I always like to have a few old tools to restore as winter evening projects- the kind of thing you can do at the kitchen table while my wife is catching up on her TV soaps! I've bought of plenty of new tools over the years too but I do get more enjoyment from using a vintage tool- especially if it's one that I've rescued after years of abuse or neglect.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Chisels- good used vintage chisels can be tricky- a lot of the time the backs are not flat or they've been badly abused. If you can find good examples they are worth buying.
......

Flatness of chisel faces is not that important (within reason). It's just one of the things our would-be gurus go on about a lot - they like to make things difficult, just ignore them!
They all end up slightly convex anyway as flattening the face (taking off the burr) means just the first 20mm or so, with just a token pass going any further up.
All the new chisels I've ever had have arrived with slightly hollowed faces. This makes them very easy to sharpen and there is absolutely no need to flatten them.