US Election November 5th

[Jake]

I'd say less, much less. He doesn't respect the constitution, and he'd sell out American interests in a heartbeat for personal gain or a tickle on the tummy from Putin.

 

[sploo]

Isn't it curious that the Trumpophobes are also the same people who generally support this Krank Starmer, they also support being part of a federal Europe and actively support punitively damaging the successful.
I'm not a fan of Trump but he is a patriot and his supporters are too. He gives the disenfranchised a voice which they never had before and puts America first.

I highly doubt Trump actually cares about anyone other than himself. But regardless, his (and his supporters') brand of patriotism is more akin to nationalism; which tends to be altogether more negative. E.g.

"identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"

We in the UK could do with some of that...putting Britain and British people first!

The problem is that there usually seems to be a correlation between those who make these sorts of statements (look after our own rather than others) and the people who also are against the kinds of social support measures to actually look after their own. Generally it always seems to boil down to look after me.

 

[selectortone]

He's no more of a patriot than most Americans. He just makes more noise about it.

I'm with Jake and Sploo: he's not a patriot at all. He's in it 100% for himself, for his ego, for power and for greed. He's an amoral gangster. His appealing to 'patriotism' has nothing to do with love of country and everything to do with votes. Much like Putin but sadly without the brains, just a little feral cunning.

And yes, I know that can be applied to some degree to most politicians, but Trump is just beyond the pale.

 

[John Brown]

I'm with Jake and Sploo: he's not a patriot at all. He's in it 100% for himself, for his ego, for power and for greed. He's an amoral gangster. His appealing to 'patriotism' has nothing to do with love of country and everything to do with votes. Much like Putin but sadly without the brains, just a little feral cunning.

And yes, I know that can be applied to some degree to most politicians, but Trump is just beyond the pale.

I agree, but I chose my words carefully.

 

[JSW]

Just make sure Trumps finger is well away from that Big Red Button when his time comes, he's the kind of selfish SOB that would take the world with him if he couldn't have it.

 

[Spectric]

Kier clearly not the sharpest tool in the box

Perhaps he needs to spend a week with Jacob to sharpen him up.

If you think of trump as a tool needed short term to get a job done and get the train back on it's rails then maybe he is the best tool short term. At the moment Biden and Harris have left a mess that needs cleaning up, not all in old Joes pants either and so you need a tool to clean it up which is where Trump comes in, after his next term who knows what will happen but hopefully we have more stability in the world as Trump is a businessman and can see things from that direction.

 

[Scruples]

"A well informed electorate is a pre-requisite for democracy"

Democracy is not about educating the plebs. Like that wouldn't be fraught with accusations of brainwashing, would it?

 

[Scruples]

eh?

Yeah, my bad.
One of those times when you leave the keyboard in a hurry without checking.
The last sentence should have read - They don't want what a few others think they should have.

One word too many and one missing - not bad for me...

 

[Scruples]

I highly doubt Trump actually cares about anyone other than himself. But regardless, his (and his supporters') brand of patriotism is more akin to nationalism; which tends to be altogether more negative. E.g.

"identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"



The problem is that there usually seems to be a correlation between those who make these sorts of statements (look after our own rather than others) and the people who also are against the kinds of social support measures to actually look after their own. Generally it always seems to boil down to look after me.

I think we did the - "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"bit from the 1500s onwards.

Trump is far right and appeals to those who are far right. He wants to own the country and will use all his money and powers to see that he does.

 

[JSW]

Trump is a businessman and can see things from that direction.

A Failed businessman you mean.

Trump sold voters on the folly that he's a successful businessman. That's a con

 

[sploo]

...Trump is a businessman and can see things from that direction.

Trump is a terrible businessman, who's failed in pretty much every field, and made less money than if he just invested his inheritance on the stock market:

 

[John Brown]

A Failed businessman you mean.

Trump sold voters on the folly that he's a successful businessman. That's a con

I wouldn't take any notice of Spectric. I'm fairly sure he's part of some sort of reverse Turing Test experiment.

 

[Blackswanwood]

If you think of trump as a tool

Harsh but I get where you are coming from ...

 

[ey_tony]

The problem is that there usually seems to be a correlation between those who make these sorts of statements (look after our own rather than others) and the people who also are against the kinds of social support measures to actually look after their own. Generally it always seems to boil down to look after me.

What I also find hypocritical is that we have Scottish Nationalism, Welsh Nationalism but it never seems to get the same bad press as any hint of English nationalism..
As it happens I actually do believe in supporting those in our society who are through accident of birth ie: mental or physically handicapped in some way or those who through no fault of their own have genuinely fallen on hard times as well as taking care of our elderly.

I also believe we should give asylum to those who genuinely need our protection but I don't support lazy members of our society choosing a benefits lifestyle or giving away our taxes to some person who decides to come here to the land of milk and honey and milk our system which generations of British people have worked hard for, without giving to people coming here having put absolutely zilsch into it.
There should be a minimum period of 2 years or more before any claims for benefits are allowed. I'd wager that would stop the boats coming far faster than Elliot Starmer and his untouchables stopping the gangs.
We have enough people of our own who need our help without giving to outsiders. Sadly economic migrants from dung hole countries are not our problem.

If that make me a racist/nationalist or whatever the woke kranks want to label me I can live with that! It's about time the woke kranks were put in their place and as a nation put Britain first...it seems to work for other nations why not Britain?

 

[Chris152]

What I also find hypocritical is that we have Scottish Nationalism, Welsh Nationalism but it never seems to get the same bad press as any hint of English nationalism..

That's probably because Scotland and Wales were forcibly occupied and controlled by England, and their forms of nationalism are an attempt to free themselves. English nationalism has no such justification. The nearest the English nationalists can get is the assertion that they want to free themselves from the nations they forcibly colonised, which is rather ironic.

 

[ey_tony]

That's probably because Scotland and Wales were forcibly occupied and controlled by England, and their forms of nationalism are an attempt to free themselves. English nationalism has no such justification. The nearest the English nationalists can get is the assertion that they want to free themselves from the nations they forcibly colonised, which is rather ironic.

Oh for goodness sake forcibly occupied, this is the 21st Century not the 18th!
You know what, it's just crossed my mind we never had these problems before the Normans came here doing their conquering ...let's blame them shall we?

 

[Chris152]

Oh for goodness sake forcibly occupied, this is the 21st Century not the 18th!
You know what, it's just crossed my mind we never had these problems before the Normans came here doing their conquering ...let's blame them shall we?

If you think it's important.

 

[Fergie 307]

Trump is a terrible businessman, who's failed in pretty much every field, and made less money than if he just invested his inheritance on the stock market:

Spot on.
This is the man who could even manage to bankrupt casinos.
Good business man ? Pull the other one.

 

[Noel]

Perhaps he needs to spend a week with Jacob to sharpen him up.

If you think of trump as a tool needed short term to get a job done and get the train back on it's rails then maybe he is the best tool short term. At the moment Biden and Harris have left a mess that needs cleaning up, not all in old Joes pants either and so you need a tool to clean it up which is where Trump comes in, after his next term who knows what will happen but hopefully we have more stability in the world as Trump is a businessman and can see things from that direction.

I see various interpretations of that statement, what's your take on it?

 

[Delaney]

That's probably because Scotland and Wales were forcibly occupied and controlled by England, and their forms of nationalism are an attempt to free themselves. English nationalism has no such justification. The nearest the English nationalists can get is the assertion that they want to free themselves from the nations they forcibly colonised, which is rather ironic.

Lol here we go with the convenient excuses.

If it’s wrong in principle, then It’s wrong on principle.

The only reason a core of the left believe in all this obvious rubbish, is because they think it will make them better off.
You have proof of this because when confronted with conservative concerns on immigration, one of the lefts top excuse is ‘but we need it for the economy’.

All this anger and hatred of Trump is just projection. Ask yourself which type of person is more patriotic.

1) A man that is called a nationalist
2) A liberal who doesn’t believe in nationalism

Yet here we are listening to people from option 2, call the people in option 1 ‘unpatriotic’.

It’s amusing to watch how some left wing types here just live in total fantasy and no evidence or logical reasoning will deter them from their beliefs. They have a fixed enemy in their mind that no longer mesh with reality.
What we then get to defend this imaginary world, is tons of gaslighting and denials of left wing culture war issues, yet we all know they exist and now we have the projection. It all reeks of narcissism.

It’s like an eternal James O’Brien show.