UK manufacture of tools for Woodwork

[beech1948]

I was struck the other day by the French launch of the latest enourmous P&O cruise liner.

The UK is unable to build and compete for such business...WHY ?

Are French wages lower
Is French VAT lower
Is power lower
Is productivity higher
Are they more skilled
Is there a government subsidy

Do we the UK lack the guts, or the will, or the nouse to do this. ??

Germany produces Bessey clamps. Why is there no UK equivalent for what must be a fairly simple manufacturing exercise.

I'm just amazed and quite down about this.

Al

 

[t8hants]

Most of the shipyard sites have been sold off for desirable dockside dwellings.
Britain has thrown away its strategic industries claiming EU rules whilst all the other nations of the EU quietly kept them going.
An independent Scotland would possibly prove an unpopular choice to build the next generation of RN warships, so that might leave them being built in say Germany or the USA.
Portsmouth shipbuilding having been closed and the trades dispersed.

 

[Rhyolith]

Britian prodcues quite a few tools, just look at this thread:
british-manufactured-woodowrking-tools-t98582.html

I have heard that Britians industrail production is currently the highest its ever been. I am not sure how thats measured, so take that with a pitich of salt.

Of course modern manufacturing facilities can produce a lot more than in the past. This means there can be less of them can do a lot more work, thus meaning there are less of them. The result is the cultural and physical prensence of the manufacturing is not felt like it once was. Thats my theory anyway.

I am all for more to be made in the UK, its better for the enivroment as well as anything.

 

[beech1948]

I was wondering because a friend told me that UK manufactureing was now only about 17% of GDP.

I admit to being uncertain of the definition of manufacturing so will need to check this.

However, taking Bessey as an example, it seems to be a simple task to process clamps like these to the same quality as Bessey.

I see Axminster have become a small scale manufacturer of lathe chucks and accessories. I don't know if the UJK stuff from them is made in the UK but the prices certainly reflect a premium being asked.

Possibly the issue is simply that in the UK the demand for profit is so high that sky high prices are necessary +VAT +business rates + wages all of which are higher than elsewhere in the world. I wonder why we have allowed ourselves to be priced out of the manufacturing businesses IF we have....I'm not sure I believe that. Certainly local costs are too high eg business rates, VAT and tax.

I l;ooked last year at the importation of high value electrical goods ( £150 +) from China to the UK and after imcluding the costs of transport there was almost a breakeven position to Uk manufacturing. That is better productivity in the UK could make the difference towards Uk making instead of chinese making.

Al

 

[Wuffles]

I was wondering because a friend told me that UK manufactureing was now only about 17% of GDP.

I admit to being uncertain of the definition of manufacturing so will need to check this.

However, taking Bessey as an example, it seems to be a simple task to process clamps like these to the same quality as Bessey.

I see Axminster have become a small scale manufacturer of lathe chucks and accessories. I don't know if the UJK stuff from them is made in the UK but the prices certainly reflect a premium being asked.

Possibly the issue is simply that in the UK the demand for profit is so high that sky high prices are necessary +VAT +business rates + wages all of which are higher than elsewhere in the world. I wonder why we have allowed ourselves to be priced out of the manufacturing businesses IF we have....I'm not sure I believe that. Certainly local costs are too high eg business rates, VAT and tax.

I l;ooked last year at the importation of high value electrical goods ( £150 +) from China to the UK and after imcluding the costs of transport there was almost a breakeven position to Uk manufacturing. That is better productivity in the UK could make the difference towards Uk making instead of chinese making.

Al

If you veer off into electrical goods, then I suppose it's fair to point out that quite a few mid to high end speakers are manufactured in the UK I think. Just in case it makes you feel any better

I have no idea if there's an export market for them though.

 

[acewoodturner]

'Manufacturing' in Britain unfortunately is a dirty word. Service industries has been the way for at least 30 years now. Difficulty with that as we shall probably see over the next few years is that banks etc can shift global operations very easily with not a great amount of cost involved. A bit more difficult to do if you are a manufacturer who not only relies on technology to 'make your product' but also a highly skilled workforce to be fully involved.
When South Africa became isolated a few years ago due to the Apartheid they had to go down the route of being designers and manufacturers due to the fact that there were embargoes on companies trading there. They struggled for a while but on the whole they managed to survive and have come out the other end. Its possible a similar type of scenario may emerge if the EU put up trade barriers and make life as difficult as possible for the UK to trade in Europe as a punishment in order to discourage other countries from wanting to leave. Its going to take a bit of joined up thinking and determination along with investment but it is possible. Filling any gaps by importing everything from China is not going to keep this country afloat but just keep the debt mounting. Whether any politician has the balls and foresight to actually sit down and work this through is a differnt kettle of fish and offhand I cant think of anyone who would rise to the challenge. This goes way beyond political party point scoring and filling your pocket with large wads of cash and backhanders. Only time will tell.

 

[Jake]

'Manufacturing' in Britain unfortunately is a dirty word. Service industries has been the way for at least 30 years now. Difficulty with that as we shall probably see over the next few years is that banks etc can shift global operations very easily with not a great amount of cost involved. A bit more difficult to do if you are a manufacturer who not only relies on technology to 'make your product' but also a highly skilled workforce to be fully involved.

That runs exactly counter to real life experience in advanced economies over the last 50 years or so. Yes OK for very high end manufacturing which is really about science, technology and cutting edge engineering, but that's the bit we have kept an edge. So much manufacturing has been off-shored because the workforce does not need to be that skilled (especially with more and more automation) so its just a question of wages. The services industry is much more difficult nut to crack for less longstanding economies which just do not have the know-how, cultural history/infrastructure/networks/values (good or bad) to get a foothold and make it work. Doesn't mean they won't of course and they are beginning to have a good crack at it. Our biggest threats in services though are the other advanced western nations.

 

[thetyreman]

I would also like to see more UK businesses having the balls to manufacture our own products, but it's going to be difficult to go back to 20th century ways of life when society is so broken, it's also going to be impossible to convince billionare business men to stop doing business with china when it costs them so little and gives them such a high profit margin, if we moved manufacturing back to england again it would simply cost them more for the same thing meaning less profit for them and higher overheads.

 

[MusicMan]

I was speaking to a colleague in industry (a senior manager) a few years ago, whose company made domestic refrigerators. However, they found they could buy complete, finished refrigerators from China more cheaply than they could buy the steel to make them, also from China. So they could clearly not compete even at zero labour cost.

There is clearly some dodgy practice going on here, which needs addressing for fair trade. It's ironic that the EU attempted recently to impose tariffs on Chinese steel but were blocked by Britain.

 

[Noel]

I was speaking to a colleague in industry (a senior manager) a few years ago, whose company made domestic refrigerators. However, they found they could buy complete, finished refrigerators from China more cheaply than they could buy the steel to make them, also from China. So they could clearly not compete even at zero labour cost.

There is clearly some dodgy practice going on here, which needs addressing for fair trade. It's ironic that the EU attempted recently to impose tariffs on Chinese steel but were blocked by Britain.

Ref tariffs and steel is that true? Big irony if so....

 

[Shrubby]

The tariffs that EU steel producers wanted were blocked by the UK government for fear of upsetting the Chinese
It was one of Boris Johnson's recent lies that the EU was preventing us from imposing tariffs on Chinese steel dumping, when the opposite is true
China has tariffs on our steel and the free market USA has tariffs as high as 265% on Chinese steel - all to protect their domestic production capacity which is considered of national strategic importance - as ours should be

Irony - good pun, but it's more of a tragedy

Keep an eye on what Tata steel are doing with Jaguar-Landrover too
Matt

 

[Noel]

Thanks Matt, I did wonder why somebody in the Hokey Cokey thread was, amongst many other things, trying to tell me it was all the EU's fault. I forget his name....
Anyway, no wonder there's very few tools make in the UK, even of the more simple variety.
And yes, JLR's ultimate plans will be interesting.