TRV's

[wizer]

Hello

I am finally getting a radiator plumbed into the workshop. It will be a 600x700 double convector. I am wondering how to control the heat. Should I put a TRV on it? Or should I just let it heat up and cool down with the house? We have TRV's on other rads and TBH I never use them. Part of the reason for getting the rad in the workshop is to help heat the room above (which is also getting a beefed up rad). If a TRV is the way to go, are the good and bad ones? Anything to look out for?

Cheers

wizer (who's got 3 projects on the go in the ws)

 

[ike]

If a TRV is the way to go, are the good and bad ones?

Honeywell, Pegler, Danfoss are OK. On the basis you generally get what you pay for - maybe avoid boggo no-name contract stuff.

 

[Oryxdesign]

I like the Drayton ones and haven't had any problems with them yet

 

[RogerS]

Wizer - definitely put a TRV on it as my gut feel says that you'll get fed up overheating.

 

[Mcluma]

I like the Drayton ones and haven't had any problems with them yet

dito

 

[Rich]

Hello

I am finally getting a radiator plumbed into the workshop. It will be a 600x700 double convector. I am wondering how to control the heat. Should I put a TRV on it? Or should I just let it heat up and cool down with the house? We have TRV's on other rads and TBH I never use them. Part of the reason for getting the rad in the workshop is to help heat the room above (which is also getting a beefed up rad). If a TRV is the way to go, are the good and bad ones? Anything to look out for?

Cheers

wizer (who's got 3 projects on the go in the ws)

Why don't you use the TRV's in your house, they are there for a reason and can save you a good deal on energy costs, none of my business of course, but I just wondered :shock:

Rich.

 

[Chris Knight]

Hello

I am finally getting a radiator plumbed into the workshop. It will be a 600x700 double convector. I am wondering how to control the heat. Should I put a TRV on it? Or should I just let it heat up and cool down with the house? We have TRV's on other rads and TBH I never use them. Part of the reason for getting the rad in the workshop is to help heat the room above (which is also getting a beefed up rad). If a TRV is the way to go, are the good and bad ones? Anything to look out for?

Cheers

wizer (who's got 3 projects on the go in the ws)

Why don't you use the TRV's in your house, they are there for a reason and can save you a good deal on energy costs, none of my business of course, but I just wondered :shock:

Rich.

I guess there is a room or house thermostat located centrally that does well enough?

 

[Rich]

But that defeats the object of having TRV's fitted, the idea is to control each room individually, ie, you would'nt want your bedroom at the same temp as your living room, with a wall mounted stat in the hallway(normally the coldest place in the house) every room will be the same as the stat dictates, which is wasting energy and gas, a Dr's surgery is set for 21degs C, so that's a decent enough temp for ones living room, a bedroom on the other hand at this time of year should be 17 degs C, kitchen....16, bathroom 18, landing...16, there is only a few degs difference, but the savings on gas/oil can be very substantial by using TRV's.

Rich.

 

[Digit]

Depending on the size of the rad Wizer, plus heat losses in the shop, you may be disappointed unless the circuit is rebalanced.
If the house warms up well before the shop, and the heating cuts off, your shop will still be cold.
Balancing then will be necessary to keep the shop rad on long enough to heat the shop.
The reverse could be that your shop gets too hot because it heats up faster than the house.
In that case a TRV will sort out the shop.
Hope that helps.

Roy.

 

[wizer]

Thanks guys. The house is very cold most of the time and so we find that the heating has to be on high most of the time too. I am beefing up a couple of rads and adding the one in the garage/workshop. Better insulation is needed throughout the house, but I can't afford it right now and don't want the mess/hassle. I'm not sure I agree with the bedroom needing to be below that of the living room? I think it should be the same or higher? When my Dad owned the house, he did not have a thermostat. He was told that one was not needed if he balanced the system with TRVs. I read up on this and found that it was wrong, so went out and got a wireless digital thermostat which we tend to move around. However, I just can;t seem to get the system the way it should. We have to heat downstairs to almost unbearable heat to get upstairs moderately warm. I guess TRVs could help this, but I have my doubts. It's a good point that when the house reaches the thermostat setting then the garage will stop heating. I will have to think about balancing with TRV's again. Perhaps it was the quality of the TRV's that was letting us down before. All very confusing.

 

[Digit]

If you have a TRV on every rad the thermostat will do owt I'm afraid Wizer.
The stat should be in a room with no TRV. That becomes the 'master' rad and the rest of the rads have their flow regulated by the 'lock shield' valves on the rad to achieve the desired temp in each room.
Moving the stat will not help if you have TRVs on all rads.

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

You do need a thermostat even if you have TRVs otherwise you have nothing to control the central heating boiler. Sounds as if your system maybe fundamentally flawed in that the sizing of the pipes doesn't match the load and/or size of the boiler doesn't match the heat requirement for your house and/or the rads are undersized as well.

Been there, done it, got the T-shirt ...sorry I meant the wooly fleece....DAMHIKT.

Insulation...insulation...insulation.

R

 

[wizer]

thanks guys

budget budget budget

 

[wizer]

What about Rads? Does it pay to pay? Plumber is quoting nearly £200 for a 700mm x 500mm Double Rad, Double Convector. I can find quite a few 'no-names' on the web for little over £60. What gives?

 

[Digit]

Depends on whether they are new or second hand I should think.
I bought six brand new convector type rads from my local Jewson's for 150 pound by buying ones that were scratched or had the grid on top damaged.
Block of wood, mallet and a can of spray paint and they were perfect.
I would certainly not use s/h ones though.

Roy.

 

[Lincolnshirebodger]

B&Q's rads seem ok, ive used two now, one in bathroom and one in conservatory. Cheap enough as well.

If you use s/hand, you dont know the extent of any corrosion internally, its a bit of a gamble. You certainly woudl have to flush em good with harpic or furnox to get the sediment out.

 

[wizer]

Cheers, I didn't mean 2nd hand, just non branded random internet jobbies. It's an odd size so the likes of screwfix and toolstation don't do them.

Par Example:

Stelrad Compact Radiator 700mm x 500mm Double Panel Double Convector 3345btu £58.55

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/stelr ... radiators/

The plumber is a good friend of my Dad, so I will bend his ear about getting the system working properly. I do think the main problem is the insulation (which will be fixed next year) and the 25yr old double glazing (which won't be fixed unless my numbers come up).

 

[Digit]

I'm not a pro Wizer but I have installed four systems for my self and friends, but if I'm teaching my grandmother etc, just say so.
If you have TRVs on every rad what will happen is this.
Eventually ALL TRVs will shut down, the pump will still be running and the boiler firing.
If no by-pass circuit is fitted then the pump is working against what is effectively a blockage, not good.
The boiler will continue to fire, and waste fuel, till its own internal stat shuts it down.
Unless some other steps have been taken the boiler will then fire again as soon as the internal water temp has dropped below the boiler stat's ON temp.
Correctly set up one rad becomes the 'master' and controls the room stat, this then controls the boiler and pump to prevent the above scenario.
That 'master' cannot have a TRV fitted.
Hope that helps.
If the boiler is old there are schemes in operation that will see it replaced, and the controls upgraded, at no cost to yourself.

Roy.

 

[wizer]

Thanks Digit. When I moved in here, I looked up the situation on not having a thermostat and learned basically what you just said. That's why I bought the wireless thermostat which is now used in the living room, but is not mounted to a wall, so either sits on a side board or dining table. There are no TRV's in this room, tho it is a large through lounge with 2 rads. The boiler is a 4yr old combi Vailant. The problem is upstairs and I think that's partly due to underpowered and faulty rads, which I am working to fix. The double glazing is old and knackered but I can't afford to replace it. Insulation will be fixed next year, including even the loft.

 

[Digit]

It sounds as though your system is not 'balanced'. If the upstairs rads are the correct size, easily checked, then you may have the classical case of the water taking the easy route by flowing faster around the downstairs rads and and starving the upper ones.
For what it's worth I would confirm that the sizes are correct or not, if they are ,'balancing should solve your problem.
Regretfully it has been my experience that heating engineers do not always tackle that side of the problem.

Roy.