Truth about A2 vs O1?

[jimi43]

Wow! I have tried that kind of thing with plane blades before now (with mixed results) but never with an axe. I assume it's quite sharp then?

Indubitably......

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

I don't come to UKW to view body hair. In future, words alone will suffice. Thank you.

AND, back on-thread... not all steels are the same of course. So A2 must vary. I remembered my 2 Veritas spokeshaves... same thing. Those Veritas A2 blades are very impressive indeed, and I feel they beat the Lie ones by a fair margin. They seem to sharpen and behave more like fine carbon-steel blades, but with added durability. Any views on Veritas v LN A2 blades welcome.

 

[jimi43]

I don't come to UKW to view body hair. In future, words alone will suffice. Thank you.

I thought mine was a tad more subtle than Lupton's...at least mine doesn't look like I've murdered a yeti!!

:mrgreen:

Jimi

 

[mtr1]

Jimi is right, the T10 steel is a different class, and knocks spots off my LN A2. So much so I might convert all my planes to the T10, matthew told me its hardened to about RC63. I don't own any O1 so can't compare.

Matt from WH does a replacement T10 blade which will drop straight into a LN block plane (mine is the low angle) - Rob

Funny thing is the blade in my LN block(LA) is superb, and has been since I bought it. I think the steel must be variable as the blade in my LN No4 is crumbly at present, that said I have only reground the blade once.

 

[Alf]

...the QS oil tempered blades (T10)

I understood the T10 was water hardening - and effectively the Chinese equivalent of the W1 of yore.

I've long fancied that the supposed advantages of "better" steels really come down less to the benefit for the end user, but more for ease of manufacture for the maker. A2 is, as I understand it, a lot easier to deal with than O1 - which is, in turn, less temperamental than W1.

 

[condeesteso]

Mark - good point re the LN block (and apron I have) - they are fabulous blades. I am less impressed with the blades in the 62 and 7 1/2 and I cannot explain why.
Any hands-on experience with the Lie O1 blades anywhere please??

 

[jimi43]

...the QS oil tempered blades (T10)

I understood the T10 was water hardening - and effectively the Chinese equivalent of the W1 of yore.

I've long fancied that the supposed advantages of "better" steels really come down less to the benefit for the end user, but more for ease of manufacture for the maker. A2 is, as I understand it, a lot easier to deal with than O1 - which is, in turn, less temperamental than W1.

You spotted the deliberate mistake ALF! I meant to type water and for some reason I typed oil! (homer)

Edit......DOH!!! I see you quoted woodbloke and I didn't actually type "oil"...I thought I was going mad for a minute there! :mrgreen:

Glad to see you're paying attention! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim

 

[andrewgcook]

evening all,

I have a Hock high carbon blade AND a Hock A2 cryo version for a tuned up no 4. My experience is that they both take a wonderful edge (i hone at 32 degrees on a 8000 grit norton ) and leave a long grain surface which displays no discernable difference in quality. The high carbon just pips the A2 for end grain surface quality. I do find however, the sharpening process differs subtly in that the burr formed on the high carbon blade polishes away with one or two alternating (bevel and back) strokes whereas the burr on the A2 blade is often reluctant to polish away and seems to require eight or nine alternating strokes, each time with less pressure. The same can be said for my LN blades. The A2 hock does seem to hold its edge a little longer.

thats all

andy

 

[bugbear]

In the days of W1, no one thought all manufacturers' blades were the same; the laminating, forging, grinding and heat treatment were all taken very seriously, and some makers blades were esteemed for their performance over others.

I see no reason that A2 (or indeed modern O1) should not vary in similar fashion.

On the "I can get it shaving sharp" front, it might be worth recalling that the Romans shaved with razors made of bronze!

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

...the QS oil tempered blades (T10)

I understood the T10 was water hardening - and effectively the Chinese equivalent of the W1 of yore.

Your no doubt correct Al...my mistook Water hardened and not oil - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Of course, us Clifton users never have to worry about all this crumbly blade stuff because Clifton make their blades properly. Just hone the blades at whatever angle you like and off you go

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Of course, us Clifton users never have to worry about all this crumbly blade stuff because Clifton make their blades properly. Just hone the blades at whatever angle you like and off you go

Cheers :wink:

Paul

...making sure that you remove the :-$ 'you know wot' :lol: from the blade before it's honed - Rob

 

[Fromey]

You all speak in a foreign tongue to me. Is there an *****'s guide to steel hardness, etc. that explains the naming system (A2, O1, T10, WD40, etc.)

 

[bugbear]

You all speak in a foreign tongue to me. Is there an *****'s guide to steel hardness, etc. that explains the naming system (A2, O1, T10, WD40, etc.)

The really simple version is - any plane blade costing over 25 quid from a reputable maker will work well.

After that it gets complex. Most of the names are related to the chemical composition or heat treatment of the steel, and while this certainly is related to the performance and properties of the steel, the relationship is very far from simple.

And woodworkers only use a tiny sample of the full range of modern tool steels.

Click here and wait ...

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php

BugBear

 

[jimi43]

There are a number of properties that the woodworker is looking for in any steel they use and the main ones are:

1) The hardness

2) The ease of sharpening

3) The length of time a honed edge remains sharp

4) The angle at which the bevel can be cut before it "crumbles"

Steel is an alloy of iron and many other elements and compounds. The compositions and way that these compositions are hardened, quenched and tempered cause the steel in question to have various qualities. Since some of the qualities above are in opposition to each other e.g. a hard steel is not easy to sharpen....there is always a compromise and the various steels you see mentioned here are those compromises.

There is never a "right" or "perfect" steel as factors like how the steel is used and even cost come into play. For the woodwork I do and for what I consider a reasonable price, T10 water quenched steel is about the best I have found....

Next comes 01 or "tool" steel...a traditional carbon steel used for many decades.

For the rest of the list Google any of them or get a book on metallurgy - a modern one!

Steel is probably the most adaptable material on the planet and has many uses and many formulae....to generalise would not do it justice.

Jim

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Any hands-on experience with the Lie O1 blades anywhere please??

I swapped in LN O1 for my LN LA blocks (60 1/2 and 140) as soon as it became available (ordered direct - the 140 was a special order, don't know if it's a stock part now.) Don't remember prep being at all arduous. Guess I hone at around 25°. Edges hold up fine and nice and easy to freshen up.

 

[Jacob]

....

The really simple version is - any plane blade costing over 25 quid from a reputable maker will work well........

And most cheap ones also work fine also in my experience. In fact I've never encountered one which wasn't usable. Some lose an edge quicker, but then they are easier to sharpen, etc.
You have to do a helluva lot of planing with different planes and set-ups side by side to really notice the difference.
Except occasionally my LV LA smoother definitely has the edge on some difficult materials, but it's most likely the design and not the steel in my opinion. Could be wrong.

 

[custard]

No mention of rust resistance. Surprising given that many on this forum use their tools only occasionally and store them in unheated sheds and garages.

A2 has about ten times the chrome content of O1 which gives it significantly better rust resistance, interestingly it doesn't make it any shinier! I find the most dramatic mirror surfaces tend to come with O1/W1 steels.

I've got a couple of Holtey S53 irons, they're even more abrasion resistant than A2, and consequently are a bugger to sharpen, I tend to use them for planing teak or man made sheet material which blunt other blades too quickly.