Trouble with Beams

[GizmoDuck]

Hi, all.

Okay, so like everyone, I've dimensioned boards before with hand planes. I've done it a dozen or so times, I thought I knew what I was doing, until I tried it on a beam, and this thing is kicking my bottom.

It's an old fence beam, it's pine, and it's been outside for ages and it's twisted and grey, you know the type.

I managed to establish a Face on it, but then it all went pear-shaped.

This thing will not plane. My Jack just glides over it with taking any shavings. I figured out that I have to plane against the grain at about 45° to take anything off, and even then it's barely anything.

The planes I'm using are sharp and are setup, but they just won't take a shaving on this thing. When I lay the plane sole on the wood I can see the cutter doesn't even reach the wood as it's so rough and beaten up. However, I thought it would at least take the High points off, but I can only get barely anything off of it unless I plane 45° to the grain.

Any advise will be amazing. Thank you.

 

[Ttrees]

A straight edge would serve you well, and not planing timber what's not supported.
An old bit of saw plate would be good to scrape grit off beforehand, as it doesn't take much
to blunten an iron.

Tom

 

[GizmoDuck]

A straight edge would serve you well, and not planing timber what's not supported.
An old bit of saw plate would be good to scrape grit off beforehand, as it doesn't take much
to blunten an iron.

Tom

Hi. Thanks.

I don't own a straight edge, and I'm only planing the beam that's supported on the bench.

 

[Ttrees]

You could make one.
Ideally, you'd need a lamp like an angle poise, look at the Ikea ones
(I can't get an ikea UK located price, as cookies gone wild)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313227123087
This is to sight a gap inbetween two timbers,
but in absence of that, then one could create witness marks by
burnishing each, or infact using crayon or graphite to transfer

If you look at David Charlesworth's videos regarding "stopped shavings"
you would get a good idea of things whats regarded as a straight edge,
and the above technique, along with hinging or pivoting techniques to get there.

Like so, with a panel gauge or using calipers to ensure those lengths are parallel,
so you can keep an eye on them, should they warp thereafter.

You could then use one as a master reference
If you still cant take a shaving, even with "cheating"
then it's likely the timber is bowing under the plane,
or it isn't sharp enough yet, i.e the will it shave arm hair test.

All the best
Tom

 

[Jacob]

You need a scrub plane. It's designed for the job. Very fast and easy to take off the top 2mm or so. 45º one way, 45º the other and then get at the clean wood with a finer plane such as a jack with a good camber on the blade.
Mines the ECE model and a pleasure to use. Scrub Planes with single Iron | FINE TOOLS
There's lots of posts about modifying No 4s etc but they tend to be nowhere near as effective as a narrow bladed scrub with a tight radius camber.

 

[GizmoDuck]

You could make one.
Ideally, you'd need a lamp like an angle poise, look at the Ikea ones
(I can't get an ikea UK located price, as cookies gone wild)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313227123087
This is to sight a gap inbetween two timbers,
but in absence of that, then one could create witness marks by
burnishing each, or infact using crayon or graphite to transfer

View attachment 168131

If you look at David Charlesworth's videos regarding "stopped shavings"
you would get a good idea of things whats regarded as a straight edge,
and the above technique, along with hinging or pivoting techniques to get there.

Like so, with a panel gauge or using calipers to ensure those lengths are parallel,
so you can keep an eye on them, should they warp thereafter.


View attachment 168132
All the best
Tom

Thanks.

Genuine question, what would a straight edge show? Wouldn't it just show me the low points? The plane tilted on its side, or a long spirit level would show me the same?

I know the beam is all over the place, in terms of high and low points, but it's planing it that's an issue. I really don't get why I can't get a conventional shaving.

 

[GizmoDuck]

You need a scrub plane. Very fast and easy to take off the top 2mm or so and then get at the clean wood with a finer plane, ideally a jack with a good camber on the blade.
Mines the ECE model and a pleasure to use. Scrub Planes with single Iron | FINE TOOLS

Thanks.

I do need one, but I don't have one.

 

[RobNichols]

Have you tried planing across the grain? I'd suggest trying it with the No.4 smoothing plane to start with (shorter sole).

Plane diagonally (45degs) and work your way down the board. Then use a straight edge (as you say anything will do - long spirit level would be fine - but the longer the better) to identify the high spots, and go back and plane those - again diagonally - to get things as flat as you can. Then try the jack plane again - this time going with the grain.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks.

I do need one, but I don't have one.

You could modify a plane by grinding a tight radius camber. It's about 25mm radius on the ECE.
The cap iron would then sit 2 to 4 mm back from the middle but extend past the edges, which sounds odd but you only use the middle 20mm or so of the blade.
ECE scrub here on a very rough piece of oak: Plane sharpening advice needed

 

[RobNichols]

a pleasure to use. Scrub Planes with single Iron | FINE TOOLS

Agree with this. My ECE scrub plane is excellent for stuff like this.

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks.

Genuine question, what would a straight edge show? Wouldn't it just show me the low points? The plane tilted on its side, or a long spirit level would show me the same?

I know the beam is all over the place, in terms of high and low points, but it's planing it that's an issue. I really don't get why I can't get a conventional shaving.

Sounds like you've already got a straight edge
but doesn't sound like you've got a suitable lamp to use it.
Some graphite would be more sensible on clean wood, than a dark crayon.

By your low points description, it suggests the focus being on the opposite
of where the plane is getting used on...
i.e expecting to be taking a long shaving immediately after knocking off a high spot.

If the plane won't cut on a transferred surface, or a noted high spot i.e in contact with the beam,
and the wood isn't warping, or on thinner longer stuff, then bench aswell...
then its an issue with the plane.

 

[Jacob]

Sounds like you've already got a straight edge
but doesn't sound like you've got a suitable lamp to use it.
Some graphite would be more sensible on clean wood, than a dark crayon.

By your low points description, it suggests the focus being on the opposite
of where the plane is getting used on...
i.e expecting to be taking a long shaving immediately after knocking off a high spot.

If the plane won't cut on a transferred surface, or a noted high spot i.e in contact with the beam,
and the wood isn't warping, or on thinner longer stuff, then bench aswell...
then its an issue with the plane.

You don't need a straightedge except for the winding sticks IMHO.
Check for twist with winding sticks, check for straightness by hold it up a bit and squinting down the length with one eye.
PS forgot to say - I've got another scrub plane with a shallower camber and it's good for taking the surface off painted wood - cuts through the paint into the clean wood underneath. No use to a decorator but good for reclaiming old wood.

 

[RobNichols]

Have you tried planing across the grain? I'd suggest trying it with the No.4 smoothing plane to start with (shorter sole).

Plane diagonally (45degs) and work your way down the board. Then use a straight edge (as you say anything will do - long spirit level would be fine - but the longer the better) to identify the high spots, and go back and plane those - again diagonally - to get things as flat as you can. Then try the jack plane again - this time going with the grain.

I've just re-read your original posting. I note you have planed at 45degs. I'd keep at that until you've got everything roughly flat.

 

[Fitzroy]

Have you resharpened your plane since starting? With crappy timber you can be dull in just a few strokes! Most times I'm struggling with a bit of wood its because I've lost the edge on my tools and not realised it.

 

[Jacob]

Have you resharpened your plane since starting? With crappy timber you can be dull in just a few strokes! Most times I'm struggling with a bit of wood its because I've lost the edge on my tools and not realised it.

Scrub plane gouges off a deep cut which will takes the surface gunge with it, which then makes normal planing easier on the clean wood underneath. Also the scrub doesn't need sharpening as much as it's only taking a very rough cut and even a few nail nicks don't matter. Also the scrub is very easy to sharpen freehand, very quickly, on a medium oilstone.
I'm a bit of a fan of the old scrubber, as you might have guessed!

 

[GizmoDuck]

Thanks, all.

Could I convert an own-brand plane? I was donated a Wickes own-brand smoothing plane by a Sparky brother-in-law as he bought it and couldn't get it working. I got it working, but it's rubbish. Would it be worth turning that into a scrub plane, ie would the cheap cutting iron be too soft to handle scrubbing?

 

[Jacob]

Thanks, all.

Could I convert an own-brand plane? I was donated a Wickes own-brand smoothing plane by a Sparky brother-in-law as he bought it and couldn't get it working. I got it working, but it's rubbish. Would it be worth turning that into a scrub plane, ie would the cheap cutting iron be too soft to handle scrubbing?

Probably blade too wide. Easiest to convert could be a 78 perhaps. Cheap cutting irons are just the job - the steel itself is rarely a problem.

 

[Ttrees]

You won't see Charlesworth using a scrub plane, nor doing anything but long grain shavings.

 

[GizmoDuck]

Probably blade too wide. Easiest to convert could be a 78 perhaps. Cheap cutting irons are just the job - the steel itself is rarely a problem.

Really? I thought a lot of Scrubs were just converted No4s.

What is a 78? Sorry, I don't know that term

 

[Jacob]

You won't see Charlesworth using a scrub plane, nor doing anything but long grain shavings.

Now why would that be then?