Trade or DIY?

[joiner_sim]

I was scrolling thru the bodgit & scarper ltd screwfix forum the other day, and I noticed some-one called us lot here on UKworkshop.co.uk the "DIY Brigade" :evil: :|

Now, I know there's an awful lot of us on here with "at home" workshops, inlcuding myself. But how many of us actually earn a living from doing it also? Please put your vote in if your only at home or if you do it for a living. I'm sure that from what alot of the posters post theres quite a few that are in the trade!

 

[Rich]

Perhaps everyone is too busy earning a living to have time to vote :roll:

Rich.

 

[andycktm]

Not sure what your implying joinersim, trade your good diy your not?
Just because people are in the trade and make a living does not mean they are good, or better than the diy'ers

 

[Doctor]

What does it matter whether you are trade or DIY, is DIY an insult.
I have seen professional rubbish and very professional DIY projects.

Just for the record, I consider myself high end proffessional and very proud of it.

 

[Davon]

I am a proud home woodworker and although my work is not up to the standard of most regular posters in this forum it's a damn sight better than some furniture displayed in the shops. I might add I am learning a lot by visiting this forum.

Davon

 

[mailee]

Well Sim, I am halfway between the two at the moment. I have been a very pro DIY'er for around the last fifteen years and circumstances have now dictated my move to the trade side. (Given me a kick up the backside to be truthful) I just hope I can still enjoy it in the future.

 

[joiner_sim]

I'm asking the question, because when I saw it say "DIY brigade" i felt it was a completley untrue statement. Because I know there's alot that do if just at home, but most of the stuff I've seen member of the forum post up, has been of excellent quality and far superior to what any bodgit n scarper off the screwfix forum could produce.

Maybe the poll is asking the wrong sort of question? I don't know...... I just thought that DIY brigade was the wrong description for this forum, as theres a consistently high quality of work produced from the members on here.

 

[FatFreddysCat]

I AM a DIYer, only not in woodworking, or at least some aspects of it. Ask me to carve a crest or turn a wafer thin platter and I'd be lost. On the other hand if you want a curved reception counter, then I'm your man! :lol:

 

[neilyweely]

Do you think it was meant to be a defamatory remark? I guess it might have been. Having said that I have read on the SF forum that there is some jealousy of 'our' workshops!!

I would rather get my questions answered by someone who did it for love anyway!!

I am a chippy, but I still have an interest outside of work in joinery. I do not get to cut DTs at work (well, rarely) so have to do it in my own time!
Good job too, 'cos I'd never get paid for it!!! :lol:

Neil

 

[NeilO]

Simon,
I could be wrong , but I believe a few of our DIY members have had articles/furniture published in the monthly magazines.....
cant be bad for the DIY brigade in the editor is willing ( and feels its good enough to publish ) to use amateur examples in his/her magazines.

 

[Rich]

I am definitely a DIY'er but having seen the pics and read the reports I would have no hesitation in advocating commissions from forum members to interested parties, the fact that it is so well spread out country wise means that there must be someone to carryout a commission anywhere in the UK.

Rich.

 

[Doctor]

I am definitely a DIY'er but having seen the pics and read the reports I would have no hesitation in advocating commissions from forum members to interested parties, the fact that it is so well spread out country wise means that there must be someone to carryout a commission anywhere in the UK.

Rich.

I would support this idea provided the commission is declared to the revenue, sadly though most hobby work is not. The strange thing is no one seems to object to someone working for cash, as a result it is estimated that over 40% of income nationally is not declared, meaning the average tax payer is footing the bill for someone elses greed, or hobby.

 

[BradNaylor]

I would support this idea provided the commission is declared to the revenue, sadly though most hobby work is not. The strange thing is no one seems to object to someone working for cash, as a result it is estimated that over 40% of income nationally is not declared, meaning the average tax payer is footing the bill for someone elses greed, or hobby.

Personally, I wouldn't begrudge a hobby woodworker doing the occasional job for cash and keeping quiet about it.

If he were to declare it to HMRC then he could also claim for all his workshop costs, which I would guess exceed any income for most hobbyists.




And some pros I can think of!

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Thats rich from a site that selling DIY tools!!!

Pete

 

[adzeman]

I am now what one would call a DIYer though I did serve an Apprenticeship as a joiner in the 50,s prior to studying for qualifications in surveying. The joiners shop was a typical village shop in a rural area employing 1900 methods. Fomica had appeared new glues though the junior apprentice had to start half an hour earlier to put the glue kettles on.
Suppose I would call my self a hobbyist rather than a DIYer.

As a surveyor with the a Local Authority I come across some horrendous workmanship and methods sometime passed to me by Building Control or the Borough Engineers. Home owners being ripped of by cowboys. I spec it, produce drawings use tried and trusted contractors and most important organize funding to put it right.

I would love to use some of the guy,s on the Forum but propriety says I cant.

Monday & Tuesday I am out and about, Wed Thurs drawing and specing Friday accounts and it is now part of my start of the day Wed to Friday to look at this Forum to see whats happening in the world of woodworking and for inspiration for projects.

The help one gets from this Forum is legion and I found it when moving from one home to another stripped my bandsaw down and tried to put it back again forgetting what went where, Surprise suprise googling assembling a Burgess bandsaw, up came this site and I was hooked.

I make my cabinets and doors in wood but seeing the alchemists professional work (and others) has inspired me to discover the use of MDF and the techniques in using it, total different to what I am used to and bearing in mind I do not have the size of workshop or the equipment but I am enjoying it.

When we find bodged jobs at work we dent tend to use the term DIYer but oh dear Barry Bucknells been here! AGAIN!

A great site guy,s keep up the good work and keep talking

 

[kenf]

I don't like the description 'DIY'; it's connotation is amateur poor or bodged work.

Save money, do it yourself, was a mantra of the late 50's/early 60's which did produce poor work due to limited access to 'trade' materials and tools, as well as lack of experience and knowledge. Trade counters could only be accessed if you had a bona fide trade account. Things are markedly different now. Many amateurs have workshops, tools and equipment that exceeds those available to the trade back then, and knowledge is far easier to obtain.

I prefer to consider dedicated amateur doing woodwork out of love and interest, as opposed to doing it for a wage. As others have said the dedicated amateur can produce finished products to the highest of standards, often because costs of time and materials are not considered, only the result.

Of course many professionals are dedicated and produce perfect products, as is evident on this forum.

 

[woodbloke]

I don't like the description of 'DIY'er' either. To put it into context, I have a set of tools in the house thrown into an old steel toolbox...these are my DIY tools for stuff around the house (blue chip chisels and crappy a claw hammer etc etc) The stuff that's racked out in the 'shop is for my amateur or hobbyist woodshop activities at whatever level it's pitched at...I hope it's a reasonable one 'cos lots of my stuff is published in F&C and they won't accept rubbish. DIY has, to my mind, dreadful connotations of 'Handy Andy' from that truly awful 'Changing Rooms' show on the Beeb a few years ago. I reckon that very, very few members of this forum would associate themselves in any way with the sort of stuff that was produced on the telly. To my mind, most forum members produce work which is infinitely better the DIY level...and long may it continue - Rob

 

[Jenx]

What's 'Trade' nowadays anyway ?

Gone are the days when a 'tradesman' served a recognised apprenticeship, and 'the trades' are slowly but surely becoming populated by guys who gave up on one career, spent 6 months at college and come out as a supposed 'joiner / plumber / sparky / brickie' or whatever.

I'm a bit 'fraudulent' commenting here .. I only do a bit of turning for a hobby .-- however, I served my time as a plumber, a proper apprenticeship of 4 years .. just missed the timing when an apprentice finished his time, then did a year as an 'improver' - before finally reaching 'journeyman' status.
And at that time, not only was the 'pipework' aspect of it done, but all the sheetmetal roofwork, including the dying arts of leadburning, sheet copperwork etc were all part and parcel of the remit.
At one time.. that apprenticeship was 7 years !

As a further comment .. although I don't work in my own 'trade' now, I still do a lot of 'homers' ( foreigners, I believe you call them down south ), and in a very recent one.. the 'joiner' was making one hell of a fuss about framing up a pressed-steel bath ... and for the life of me, I couldn't 'get' why he was making all sorts of "bluster".
Turned out.. he'd been a baker up until a year beforehand .. done one of the '6 months and be a joiner' courses ... and didn't know how to do it, or where to start.
-- I don't blame the man himself.. he's a victim of circumstance to a large degree ... but that certainly highlights the danger of how the 'trades' have been allowed to go.
Framed the bath myself... and to be honest, I felt right sorry for the guy in the finish. -- Poor bloke was in his late 40's and was embarrased, and that can't be a good thing for anyone.

Most of what I see you fellas here making would lead me to call you 'cabinetmakers' .... and the standard of the work that one sees here in your pictures, is absolutely stunning.
You turn out absolutely fantastic stuff. Truly wonderful.
That type of work is a world away from shuttering joiners, or guys banging lengths of CLS together to form stud-partitions, or screwing double-glazed window units into place.

No doubt some are dedicated ''amateurs'' - and don't generate their main income from it .. others may do so.
From both camps, your work is teriffic... in many cases, one could say 'awesome', and not be overstating matters.

I wouldn't worry too much about what other people may label you as ..
'DIYer' / Tradesman ( whatever thats come to mean nowadys ) ...

You guys dont have Anything to worry about....
your stuff's bloody lovely.
You've much to be very proud of. --- the work produced speaks for itself.
:wink:

 

[yetloh]

I remember being on a short furniture course at West Dean (with Bernard Allen - fabulous tutor) where I met a guy on the furniture conservation course who was retraining having spent 30 years as a chippy. He told me that it wasn't until he had done Bernard's tool tuning course that he realised he had never worked with sharp tools; I am quite certain he is absolutely typical of the Screwfix trade brigade. The truth is that they are serving a generally undiscerning market and have neither the economic time nor the need to work to the standard that the great majority of contributors to this forum expect of themselves.

I too am an amateur and have had a number of pieces published in F&C. I aim for the highest possible standard in both design and making. Do I always achieve it; of course not. I am sometimes reasonably content with a piece, although never completely satisfied, but at least I have had the satisfaction of working to the highest standard I can which the Screwfix brigade cannot because the customer won't pay, even assuming they are capable of it. Do I care that the Screwqfix brigade may look down on me? Not a bit; I have the luxury of being able to aim for the best and the satisfaction of knowing that my work is, in the sense of true craftsmanship, better than all bur a tiny percentage of theirs.

Jim

 

[joiner_sim]

Looks like i may have started a debate? :roll: :? I've just got to say what I said yesterday, that although some on here only do it for a hobby, the quality is second to none, and DIY description isn't a bad thing. I was just a little annoyed how over on screwfix, it felt like they were taking the pi*s a little calling us the DIY Brigade.....

The topic in question: http://www.screwfix.com/talk/thread.jspa?threadID=74908 (4th post in)

I think this jig might appeal to the serious diy brigade. You should try over on ukworkshop.co.uk . From a professional's point of view though.........

My point is that I think that a hell of alot of the work that is put up on this site/ topics discussed IS professional!