Tools and machines for my workshop?

[Droogs]

I have done without a track saw or similar for 50 odd years but as I get older and the workshop fills up have started to build a wall mounted sheet saw and wonder why I never thought of it before. Perfect for handling sheet materials without the need to pull out trestles and wait for it to stop raining or having 8ft of space on all sides of a table saw. it will make life a lot easier

They do take up a hell of a lot of wall space though wildman.

 

[Jonm]

Seems to me that Sebastian’ post is about his power tools. He originally bought cheap ones and has upgraded to better quality tools both corded and cordless. He is now considering further purchases of bandsaws planers etc. He has researched this online and produced a list and budget for these tools. Some of them he has little knowledge about.He is asking for advice on these tools.

Just because he is new to this forum does not mean that he does not know what he is doing. He is going to an electrician about upgrading his supply, very sensible. Just because he has not mentioned hand tools does not mean he does not have them or know how to use them.

There has been a lot of unnecessary acrimony. If everyone stuck to the question clearly asked in the original post then this would have been avoided. I know everyone is trying to help but I can see why Sebastian is upset.

 

[Wildman]

They do take up a hell of a lot of wall space though wildman.

True but if the circular saw is removable the whole thing can live on an outside wall with a porch cover to protect it from the weather or inside where machines can stand against it, after all you only need access to one end and the actual saw. close to the door makes loading easy, it will suit me and use the space twice.

 

[siggy_7]

Sebastian, with regards to a router table I would like to suggest you look at the Incra LS fence system. In my opinion, it is by far and away the best system available for a router table because it completely takes the guesswork out of set-up and adjustment. No indeterminate nudges and endless trial cuts, you zero it in and then can set the fence position to exactly what you need. The micro-adjust feature is very useful for achieving very fine tolerances. I have the LS myself and to an engineer/machinist's way of thinking it is leagues ahead of basic home-made stuff.

For a router, I would recommend the large Triton router for a table (mine is the TRA001, the model numbers have changed since I think but the TR bit is the important bit - it's the largest of Triton's routers, about 2kW). It has a very good height adjustment system, making a separate lift unnecessary, plus above-table locking which makes bit changes very easy.

For an insert plate and table, I can't offer first-hand experience. The Incra plates are good from what I have heard. My own table is made from 6mm steel, including the insert plate. I had it laser cut by a local machine shop with a 3mm deep machined recess for the hole-reducing inserts - the table is custom-sized to fit as an extension table to my table saw. I then make the hole-reducing inserts to the required size out of perspex and route slots into them to provide extra dust extraction in the same manner as the "clean sweep" Incra inserts. When combined with below-table dust extraction plus that from the fence, it really makes for a very clean routing process. I chose a steel table to ensure it is flat and also magnetic for use with Magswitch accessories - I don't have t-track in the table which for me is a bonus as it limits positioning of feather boards etc compared with a fully magnetic table, plus t-track just attracts dust.

Best of luck with your woodworking endeavours, I look forward to seeing some of your work and further contributions here.

 

[MikeK]

I second the Incra LS system for a router table. I built my router table using the Incra system, and while it is a bit pricey, I can't think of a better system that meets my small shop requirements, but most importantly, because that is what I wanted. I had a Triton TRA001 mounted to an Incra router plate made for it, but got tired of having to open the CleanSweep housing every time to unlock and lock it for adjustments or manually turn it off to raise the router to change cutters. I replaced it with a AUKTools V3 variable speed router (with remote speed controller) mounted to the Incra Mast-R-Lift-II lift. The AUKTools V3 is rated at 2.4HP instead of the Triton's 3.25HP, but I can live with it.

The Incra CleanSweep MagnaLOCK plates are fantastic for dust and chip control. Very little remains on the table or floor, even when cutting dados when the fence extraction port is not effective. Aside from a little build up in two internal corners of the CleanSweep housing, everything is sucked up by my extraction system.

 

[silz]

Sorry guys -- it's getting a bit tricky replying to every single helpful person but I have read every bit of what was written here and i'm quite happy with the advice i've been given, learnt a lot and feel more confident about the choices i'll make.

A 'sparky' as you call them has been by today and checked the wires confirming i'll be able to upgrade the existing breaker to 32A and add 2x 16 Amp plugs in the garage which should be more than enough for Lights + 1.1kw extractor + 2.2 or up to 3kw PT

Based on my needs I'll prioritze getting a decent PT with as much capacity as possible. I understand the need for a 'higher capacity' as possible but it seems if I'll start venturing beyond the 265mm I'll essentailly blow all of my budget on a PT and nothing else. The AT310 seems like a decent choice but If I have to choose between 50mm more planing capacity and a bandsaw, I'd rather get the bandsaw and make do with the AT260.

On the bandsaw there doesn't seem to be any point in getting much more cutting capacity than what I'll be able to process with the jointer. My finalist is currently BS400 Premium 16" Bandsaw -- It seems to have the same power and capacity as the more expensive AT variants whilst compared to them it comes with cast iron band wheels. I can't figure out why its so much cheaper than the axminster stuff.

On the routing side I'll hold fire as I don't need to do any templating on any particular future project. I'll be fine just with the 18v Makita for doing edges and I don't expect to use the router table much in the next few months.

But in order to make the next couple pieces of furniture for my indoors, I'll need to:

- Resize the oak boards into workable pieces, either with the bandsaw or table saw which I already have.
- Resaw the boards into needed widths. (need a new proper bandsaw for this)
- Plane/size them (need a Planer/Thicknesser for this)

Now i don't necessarily need to use anything like a biscuit jointer or the domino to put the top of the dining table together but I might as well get the domino and use that since I intend to use it on a lot of future projects as well.

 

[AJB Temple]

Cool. How are you off for cramps? Dining table top will require plenty of cramps and a decent big and sharp hand plane for flattening. I am still collecting cramps after all these years as I never seem to have enough for big glue ups.

Not sure what you mean by "resawing the boards into needed widths". If you mean widths across the boards (not thickness) then a bandsaw is the wrong tool for the job. Table saw, track saw or handsaw - not bandsaw. Then plane and edge rub. Bandsaw os a bad choice as you cannot get really accurate straight cuts over a long length that are good enough for edge jointing.

Thicknessing is a lot easier with a powered thicknesser, but can be done with a hand plane, maybe aided by a good, big belt sander.

 

[silz]

@AJB Temple

I do not have any parallel clamps and in total I have around ~16-20 clamps now so not a sizable collection. I've just ordererd 4x 1000mm parallel clamps off of ebay (link BESSEY UK100 UniKlamp 1000mm Adjustable Parallel Jaw F Clamp & Spreader,1,2,4's | eBay) and if they're any good I'll order more. I'm a bit suspicious though as they sell 4x for 110 gbp and the one axminster sells are 60 pounds a pop, could there be something wrong with them?

I've been looking at used domino 500's on ebay but i'm more gradually more tempted to just get a cheaper biscuit jointer to help with panel alignment and call it a day. I don't think I'll get to the point of building any chairs this year and that's the main use I'd have out of the Domino.

I did order a makita 18v brushless planer from axminster but they messed up the premium delivery and ended up cancelling as they were being dicks about it saying they got the order at 16:04 although on all my invoices, emails & every piece of data it shows up as 15:55. Even on the order itself it says premium delivery for 28th of August but they still refused to acknowledge their mistake, anyhow, different story, decided meanwhile i'd have very little use for it if I end up getting the PT in the next couple of weeks and I'm better of cancelling it anyway.

The biggest plane I own is a Stanley no4 so I'm definitely interested in getting at least 1 larger hand plane (not sure which exact size to pick though -- or brand!) for table tops and such as I wouldn't dare suggest the use of an electric planer for those tasks.

Would you be able to suggest some decent set of chisels that don't break the bank? I do currently own a set but to be fair they're quite crap and I'd throw them out in a heartbeat.

All of this leads to my next problem which is getting some sharpening gear to keep everything properly sharp, I need to look into that!

 

[silz]

Another thing I wanted to ask -- the sparky said that the wire to my garage is '2a' or something like that 2 + some letter that I didn't hear right, but he didn't seem too confident overall and didn't want to give a quote on the spot instead he said he's going to email me later.

I did mention I don't want to lay a new wire as It's too much work and we don't want to keep this house for long so I'm thinking he might be bullshitting me for a some work.

I contacted him via trustatrader where he had 20+ 5 star reviews.

Is there such thing as a 2a or whatever cable that could be enough for 32 amps? I've googled around and couldn't find anything specific about that.

 

[billw]

Would you be able to suggest some decent set of chisels that don't break the bank? I do currently own a set but to be fair they're quite rubbish and I'd throw them out in a heartbeat.

Narex

 

[silz]

@billw

Thanks! These look quite nice o.o Narex Chisels - 8116 Cabinetmakers Chisel Boxed Set (black) and bang for buck

 

[billw]

@billw

Thanks! These look quite nice o.o Narex Chisels - 8116 Cabinetmakers Chisel Boxed Set (black) and bang for buck

8105 series is even cheaper and decent all-round workhorses.

 

[AJB Temple]

Second hand chisels off the Bay. I have fancy (LN) and cheap (Footprint I had as a kid - really good). Old marples, Ward, old Stanley etc usually have great metal. You only need about 4 for furniture making. Not personally a fan of Narex as the handles don't fit me.

Sharpening is crucial. There are oodles of threads here. Everything works. Diamond plates are cheap and fine if you are inexperienced or expert. Oil stone. Water stones. 3M paper on glass plates. Or more expensive electric linisher (very quick).

Hand plane. For flattening you want a plane with a long sole plate. Look at eBay. Record or Stanley No 7 say. Modern ones generally not a patch on old ones. If you want top notch new stuff, then Veritas, Lie Nielson, Clifton. Cheaper Chinese Qunagsheng or Axminster Rider (latter of patchy quality). For hand planes used for edge jointing or flattening, a long sole is good as you iron out high spots. Must be sharp. Sole must be true.

I did not check your Bessey link, but it is a good brand. Lots of us use old Record. Rigidity helps for wide sizes.

Biscuit jointer is very different to Domino. If you are inexperienced at edge jointing or jointing generally, forget biscuits and get domino. Just about foolproof, very strong and crucially, easy to align. I resisted domino / festool for ages. I was wrong.

 

[Blackswanwood]

On the bandsaw there doesn't seem to be any point in getting much more cutting capacity than what I'll be able to process with the jointer. My finalist is currently BS400 Premium 16" Bandsaw -- It seems to have the same power and capacity as the more expensive AT variants whilst compared to them it comes with cast iron band wheels. I can't figure out why its so much cheaper than the axminster stuff.

If you can get to see one of the Trade Axminster bandsaws alongside the Record BS400 I think you’ll pick up on the difference in build quality. I have been mulling over a bandsaw upgrade for the past couple of months and they all look pretty much the same. The difference tends to be in things like the blade guides - I think the Record has discs whereas the Axminster Trade are ball bearing?

I’m not knocking the BS400 - it’s got decent power and capacity but imho it’s a couple of notches below the Axminster Trade machines. Startrite are also made by Record and probably more comparable. (Scott and Sargeant have cloned the Startrite machines under the Itech brand.)

 

[PAC1]

That sounds like a plan. I have the BS400 it is good strong bandsaw. It will take a large blade and fully tension it. You can also fit a very narrow blade 1/8th is the smallest I have. It has bearing guides not discs. My biggest complaint with it is the dust extraction is not good enough. There is 4” at the bottom but only a 1” port under the table.
it is worth looking around at prices as they regularly have offers. Check out Yandles prices
You will need wheels for it but i did not get the Record wheels
Edit Sorry it has a mix of bearings and fixed guides.

 

[TheTiddles]

What a fun thread, how did I miss it for so long?

I think the pertinent question is the one that’s been asked a fair bit, as we need to match our tools to solve the problems we have. So you want to make a bench and a table, great start... what kind of bench and table? A modern sculptural masterpiece in flowing curves with burr veneers wrapping perfectly over every surface and millimetre perfect inlays highlighting every facet? Or old scaffolding boards nailed to a shopping trolley? (Upcycling as it’s known, apparently)

A large refectory type table in English oak can be done with a few hand tools, or some monster machines to give just about the same finished item, but if you’re going to be laminating several hundred strips to make intersecting compound curves, then you’re looking at some serious kit to take the work on for that and get it right.

Maybe the thing to do it design what you want to make a bit, look how others do it and what they use for it, it may not be the perfect answer but it may save you from the disillusionment of having spent a lot of money on things that still don’t give you the result you want.

There are some people who post their work who have deep pockets and no idea, it’s comical watching them fluff up
one thing after another because they never once did a proper plan. Others have a thing for having as few tools as possible yet make some incredible things all by themselves.

From my own experience I’d say after two years’ish I wouldn’t have had nearly enough knowledge to buy a lot of equipment and get good value from it. Now I find I have just about all the tools I need or want (in fact probably too many) but never enough time to use them. Could I go out and spend what you’re planning to? Sure, would I? No, not a chance. But don’t let me stop you, it keeps people employed.

Aidan

 

[MusicMan]

How about a reset, guys? Seb will find it hard to realise that this is a welcoming and helpful forum. Seb, why not ask your question again but give us some idea of the things that you (a) have made (b) want to make. You'll find plenty of help on how to get there. Plenty of it contradictory of course. One of the things to learn in woodwork is that there are often many ways of achieving the same ends.

 

[silz]

@AJB Temple

Thanks for the advice, the record No7 seems excellent for what I'd need, I'll try to grab a decent one off of ebay and sharpen it adequately!

Although I have never used a biscuit jointer or a Domino i'm aware they're quite different tools for different purposes, i was thinking i could postpone getting the domino for a few months since my immediate needs are strictly to help with alignment and nothing more. But it is a bit of a juggle between pay 150 for a biscuit now and 500 for a domino later or just skip to the domino right now, I'll do the math after getting the <essentials> and see if I can fit it in.

@TheTiddles

I know there's plenty of different ways to build all the things one would want to build and that there's always a way to build it by using solely cheap handtools. I am aware that some people preffer it whilst others have had it forced upon them out of financial necessity. Neither type of tools are a substitute for skill and hard work.

I am however free to choose my own path and my own methods of building. Not a fan of purism, it's almost always rooted in childlike arrogance.

I didn't post plans & measurements as it wasn't pertinent to my question. I didn't ask 'what tools to use to build X', I asked which brands/models should I pick for these specific machines. I don't know how many times I have to clear this bit up.

I do plan absolutely everything i build down to the millimiter as in my day-to-day jobs I worked in the complex infrastructure industry.

I'm also happy to keep people employed with my spending

 

[Ttrees]

Sebastian, did you have a look at any of those folks I mentioned?
Might give you some insight into hand tools and machinery, vs power tool and machinery.
You might find those folks who primarily use Festool kit and powertools
don't pick up a hand plane much.
From what you mentioned before, I am still wondering what you want any Festool domino or similar kit for.
That's a tool for speed in conjunction with large machine outfits mostly or folks who actually use it to make money.
Kind of the opposite to a dressy joint that you might learn from and see in refined work like Jory.

What sort of a workbench have you got?
If you haven't got something solid and no intention to buy something heavy...
Would/should/might this be perhaps the best idea to research what machine you need, thus making fewer tools to concentrate on.

A real workbench is the most important tool in the workshop if you intend to do handwork, and much different to an MFT torsion box that you might use to try an avoid doing hand tool woodworking.
The latter bench for a first bench is a recipe for failure or even disaster when the time comes to do something that a hand power tool cannot do, or do safety.

My bench does all the surfacing that a planer would do, and I treat it as such!
Some are the opposite.
I like planes and I'm not needing to take off a half inch off something often.

The sawing machines can do so much more work for me, than a planer could do.
Your timber merchants might be a very relevant consideration when choosing what the best machines for you are.
Stick with your hand tools and do more research.
You don't need to spend that kind of money for really good machinery.

Get one machine at a time and you gain an extra machine or two with your budget.
By the time a suitable machine comes up, you should have done a few months of research and know what you want by then if you study.

Tom

 

[siggy_7]

Sebastian, the Bessey Uniklamps you have ordered are fine for general assembly but being the quick-action squeeze type are relatively weak inclamping force (from memory 1500N I think). For more challenging glue-ups, such as closing small gaps in a laminated table top glue up, you'll want something like the Bessey K-Body Revo which I think is about 5 times as strong. I would buy a couple of these, you won't regret having the extra clamping power on hand when you find you need it halfway through a glue up (I own both types and speak from experience).