Tools and machines for my workshop?

[silz]

@Steve Maskery

Thanks again! So far I've made used of some cheap standley sawhorses connected by 2x4's with some loft-floor panels I had laying around on top of it as a base to support the work as I cut into it. I can definitely see the appeal of a more properly designed stand like the Sore Hoarses MKII.

The video's also been quite helpful, i need to build myself one of those stop-block sticks! It takes me quadruple checking/measuring at every edge before making a cut and even after that I don't trust its square unless I clamp the track down!

 

[PAC1]

In order to work with hardwoods you do need a planer thicknesser, however you do not need a spiral cutting head unless you work with very difficult hardwoods. I understand your noise concerns but I do think a spiral head is worth it. you could insulate the garage to reduce noise from all machines with the saving.
As for bandsaws consider something like a Record BS350
Also I simply do not know how you will get all the machines you want and have in a single garage and actually be able to make furniture. When I set up my first workshop in a single garage the only machines I had were a small combination machine, a bandsaw and chip extractor. Even then space was a premium

 

[MikeG.]

In order to work with hardwoods you do need a planer thicknesser......

Apart from the above, I agree with your every word. If you don't have a planer thicknesser you'll soon get pretty good with a handplane.

Yep, the big deal here is that the OP is going to end up with a shiny collection of expensive tools, no money left to spend on wood, and no space to work in.

 

[Fitzroy]

I know what you mean about table saw cross cuts with a sled, it’s about the main thing I use my TS for. Although I now often do this on the bandsaw, with a shooting board to finish the end to the precise mark.

I have a DW1150PT that I have taken the tables off and now it’s just used as a thicknesser. I have a Wadkin BFT9 surface planer.

The planer is 60” long which is great and means I can process long(ish) boards. It’s a two knife cutter block but a large diameter and leaves a good finish. It’s heavy and although noisy it’s not screechy. However it’s only 9.25 inches wide and I would like to go to a 12” model as I often work with boards wider than 9” (235mm). It’s three phase and I rewired it with an VFD. Cost £250 on Gumtree and £80 for the VFD.

The thicknesser is a bit of a weak link in the chain. It’s got a short bed and the rollers are not that strong, the cutter block is a smaller diameter. As a result boards come off with noticeable scallop cuts from the knife passes. It’s a real workhorse and it’s only now after about 4 years of woodworking that I’m starting to find it’s shortfalls bothersome. Cost £200 on gumtree.

I have a Startrite 352 bandsaw, three phase rewired with an inverter. It didn’t have a fence so I bought one second had on here. Cost £200 + £60 for VFD and £60 for the fence. Huge upgrade over my old ELU. A good machine with as much capacity as I’ll ever need. The fence is excellent and makes a positive difference on the machine over the OEM fence.

I appreciate what your saying about buying second hand. I tend to take it to extremes buying old three phase machines that are cheap, need converting and could require other works to get running smoothly, ie bearing changes etc. I’m mechanically and electrically confident and enjoy the fix up. If you don’t take it this far you can still get newer machines with few running hours on eBay, Gutree or from dealers.

F

 

[PAC1]

MikeG, I agree that hand planing is a skill all woodworkers should possess and as an apprentice I was taught to face and edge timber and dimension it. I was also required to make all assessed pieces totally by hand. However if you want to make things with hardwoods a planer thicknesser will save the most time in the process. Far more than a bandsaw, rip saw, mortiser, sander etc.
I think if I was the op, I would take stock of what is needed and eBay anything currently owned that is not absolutely necessary and taking up precious space. Then take Steve's Dad's advice (which I was also told) to buy 1 tool at a time as needed rather than wanted.

 

[Bod]

I thought that instead of writing more threads on choosing A vs B I'd rather just go ahead and ask for advice on one larger single thread.

I currently have a decent single garage workshop but would like to take it a bit to next level as I'd like to be working with more sawn/dried hardwood boards but i'm not sure how much my budget will allow for this.

Early on i started with the cheapest of the cheapest i could find -- Ozito and have been thoroughly disappointed at how useless most of their stuff are. I would've been better of just doing nothing as the only thing I was able to produce with these was very expensive firewood. In various places I tried to upgrade to some 'next tier' stuff which has left me somewhat disappointed as well.

This has sort of given me the mindset that I'm better of just biting the bullet and cry just once when paying a hefty price tag for a decent tool.

Spreadsheet of tools i've already had for a while and I'm happy with

Spreadsheet of what I plan on getting

Main stuff:

Planer/thicknesser that doesn't sound like satanic screeching, i understand this limits me to waiting 2 months for the iTech 260s or three weeks for the AT260SPT and hoping I can get everything square myself. I could also upgrade to the JET JPT 310HH which seems significantly better than both but that would blow over half of my budget just there.

Bandsaw -- For this one i'm almost completely lost, apart from larger cutting capacity I have no idea what to look for. I've looked at Axminster's Trade series, Laguna, Charnwood, etc. and it didn't get any less confusing.

Router -- I understand that a proper router table setup will run me up to £2k easily, not counting bits. For my use case & experience though I don't expect to be using a router table too much so a custom-built one with a basic top should be sufficient as a starter. I do intend to do quite a bit of template-based finishing and based on that it seems like the Festool OF1400 1/2" with an ultimate spiral combination bit should do the job.

Bobbin Sander - I haven't used one in the past but it seems like this would be excellent for finishing up projects with a lot of curves. I find it a bit tricky achieving this with just the random orbit sander.

Festool Domino 500 -- I think i'd mostly be using the smaller dominos which the 700XL can't do, from what I've seen so far even if they'd be the exact same price I'd be better off with the 500. No flexibility here unless I find a good used version.

I'll also need to upgrade my garage's sockets to add a 16A and a 32A braker as the current one is only 16A which I'm waiting for quotes on and hoping that it's not going to be terribly expensive.

Any advice around the choices/potential alternatives or just ways to bring the overall cost down is greatly appreciated as I have little practical experience with the above beyond digital research.

EDIT: Apologies for the confusion, wanted to clear things up:

I'm not looking for <what do i need to buy to get started with woodworking>. I'm by no means 'good' at this but I have been consistently woodworking for 2+ years now. It's just that this year was the first time I had the opportunity to get a proper home workshop.

I'm asking for advice around specific brands & models as I don't know a lot of them in the UK and it seems like there could be better options out there that I don't know about. (for example I just herd of iTech for the very first time this week)

Are you planning on going professional?
If so, then at some time you will almost certainly employ someone, albeit "just" to sweep up a couple of times a week, soon becomes "here hold this" "can you cut 28 of these"
This then puts you into the world of H&S requirements, it will be better to buy H&S compliant machines now, rather than to have to upgrade later. Some DIY grade machines, and a lot of 2nd hand will not comply.

Bod.

 

[wkerswell]

Not sure why everyone is so against you buying the things you would like. I have a garage full of cheap tools and would love to upgrade them. Even yesterday I struggled for about an hour trying to get a flat face on a cheap joiner. Wasted some more time trying to set the bit height in my £20 Aldi router table. It would be great to remove that sort of grind from process and just get on with the making that I enjoy.

 

[maznaz]

Not sure why everyone is so against you buying the things you would like. I have a garage full of cheap tools and would love to upgrade them. Even yesterday I struggled for about an hour trying to get a flat face on a cheap joiner. Wasted some more time trying to set the bit height in my £20 Aldi router table. It would be great to remove that sort of grind from process and just get on with the making that I enjoy.

You are right, and we all have a different personal approach to a very broad-ranging hobby. That said, there are certainly hints throughout this discussion that a little more time spent on becoming proficient at some of the techniques employed would improve results more than upgrading equipment. A lot of youtube videos with fancy equipment do gloss over the fact that even using those posh bits of kit relies on a good working knowledge of technique, application of force in specific directions, understanding of warning signs and so on.

There is obviously a risk that having tools that can't perform even adequately will ruin output and prevent the ability to learn those techniques, which sounds like where you're at. I don't think after £4200 investment in the first half of the year that one should be in that situation though, unless things are being acquired for the sake of it.

 

[recipio]

Well, I have built up a workshop over 30 years. Here are my thoughts.
1. Almost all gear coming out of China is junk. Focus instead on European and American made tools - they will last a lifetime.
2. People complain about underpowered/ small capacity tools but no one complains about an overpowered tool. Buy the biggest tool you can afford.
3. For a PT I have found the rubber rollers on Scheppach machines allow smooth planing and let you get down to 3 mm for small dimensioning without roller marks. They are worth buying for this alone.
4. Avoid cheap routers like the plague. I have a well known router that vibrates so badly I can't use it. I find Makita routers butter smooth and built like a brick.
5. Oscillating bobbin sanders for the DIY market are pretty useless. Consider an edge sander with access to the bobbin at one end.
6 Power is everything with a bandsaw. The best value bandsaw IMO is the Hammer N4400 which has a single phase 4 HP motor. Not too expensive either.
7 Dust is the bane of any workshop not to mention a fire hazzard. Aim to have every machine extracted with automated blast gates.

I could go on but that's a good start.Think laterally - the internet allows you to search the world for the best tools and most outlets are happy to ship them to you. I have bought a tablesaw and drum sander from the U.S. for instance. Oh......buying a tool every week is a great idea !

 

[MikeG.]

...... Power is everything with a bandsaw........

I can't argue with anything else you posted, but I'm not sure this, above, is the whole story. If you stuck a 4HP motor on my bandsaw, it wouldn't improve it much. The limiting factor on mine is the weakness of the bodywork, and thus how much tension can be put on the blade. (OK, the table tilting/ leveling mechanism is useless, too.......). Admittedly there is generally some sort of link between a beefier body and a more powerful motor, but I would still say that having a strong frame and/or body construction is equally as important as power.

 

[Coyote]

I think the tone of the responses might have been set by your initial post which, to paraphrase, said - "I've bought lots of tools and made firewood with them, so I want to rectify that by buying lots of more expensive tools".

As has been said, expensive tools won't make up for a lack of basic skills and experience.

I note that you edited your first post to clarify that you aren't just starting out but this could have been missed in the thread of this conversation.

To get the guidance you're after, perhaps you could show some of what you have made successful and where, specifically, you think where what you have in the way of tools is holding you back?

Having said all that. I wish I had your budget!

 

[MikeG.]

...........my next couple of projects which will be a bench.....

Do you not have a bench now?

 

[silz]

@MikeG.

fml. my bad. so -- not a workbench. An integrated sitting bench in our kitchen alongside a wall. Which I'll then build another dining table for to match.

 

[Doug71]

To answer a couple of your original questions the Festool OF1400 is an excellent router but would be wasted used in a table. If you get the OF 1400 I would also get a cheaper workhorse, maybe a 1/2" Hitachi or something and build yourself a table to put it in and leave it in so you are not taking the Festool in and out of the table.

You can buy an adapter for the Domino 700 so you can use the smaller 500 bits in it. Obviously not a cheap option but gives you the best of both worlds.

https://www.toolovation.co.uk/seneca_cutter_adapter_p/swrts500.htm

 

[PAC1]

I use more oak than any other wood. You need a P/T but you do not need a spiral head. Oak is not that difficult grain

 

[silz]

@Doug71

Thanks! this is exactly the kind of stuff i wanted to ask about. I had no idea there's a way to get the 700 XL to make smaller mortises.

I'm not sure if i'll ever have a consistent use of larger mortises where the 700 will excel for. For those specific cases I'll probably be ok to just use the chisel mortiser. One factor would be the increase size & weight which would make the 700 more difficult to handle than the 500.

On the router side -- I was feeling the same already and based on your comments and what I've seen others suggest, I'll use the OF 1400 mostly for templating work and routing outside the table as it seems the kind of thing it truly excels at. I'll see if I can get the Ozito attached to the plate to use with the router table for now as I don't want to get a 4th router if I can help it.

I guess If I'll end up using the router table more than now, I'll probably invest in a cheaper 1/2" router like the Trend or even Dewalt/Makita seem to have nice offerings around the ~200gbp mark. Tanks for the advice!

 

[silz]

@PAC1

Thanks. While i want to start with Oak, I intend to keep the PT for the next 5-10 years and It is likely I'll want to try other timbers during that time span and I wouldn't want to be limited by the PT & have to sell the one I buy now and then buy a Spiral one -- if I can help it.

 

[AJB Temple]

I would not get the 700 unless you are doing very large pieces. The advantage of the smaller domino is it is light, easy to locate on the cut line and easy to operate one handed. For most domestic sized work, the 700 will slow you down. I find a 500 very easy but I sold my ex eBay 700 as even though I may doors etc, it is just for me and for large pieces I prefer a mortice and tenon or a wedged M&T.

 

[Ttrees]

Hello
Seems like you're in a rush to make money back, or have something to show from your investment.
That's not a good place to be in, as in buying a few production machines
and finally producing quality and then fatigue kicks in or some other variable.

I had a look at your lists and fair enough, I can't really comment or give advice
as what you're looking for is a mini production environment with no hand tools being emphasised.

The one thing I will say in jest is you should get a welder for all these machines
because even if you get half the stuff on the list, everything will need to be on wheels or you buy an overpriced add on instead.
I just think its very practical to own one.

I don't think locked castors are safe, which I presume would be in "wheel kits" or whatever on most of the stuff you'd buy.
And the same goes for small lightweight machines in general
which often have a much lesser distance between operator and the cut.

A metal design something like Carl Holmgren's drops the machine feet back on the floor.
This might not be what you want to hear since you've got a shopping list.

Anyway, instead of giving out advice I will try and be helpful now.
What youtubers are you watching that would give the best hint at the workshop you want to outfit?
Manorwood, and Mike Farrington would be big youtubers in that as little handwork as you can get away with category.
Fair enough, they're workshops are quite large, but maybe you could give other suggestions.
I would think it boils down to what material the youtuber in question is using
and if you wish to go the same route.
It might make a huge difference to your core machinery.
If you have the dough to buy timber when required, then you can buy a month or two in advance.
I would be solely concerned on three core machines, and getting the workshop sorted.
That is if you want to get quality ones, it will take some time to learn what
pros and cons of various designs and features will suit your workshop.
Stay out of those showrooms!
All the best

Tom

 

[silz]

@Ttrees

Thanks for your response. You are correct about the castors bit -- all the cabinets & stuff I've built so far for my garage has been on castors and I would've wanted to keep the bandsaw & PT on castors if possible using the provided attachments. It did not occur to me that this might be dangerous so thanks for pointing that out.

What about just using these type of workbendh castors?

In this case the bench/PT/whatever would only be on castors for the time that you move it around and during use it will use its own static structure.

I don't watch a lot of youtubers in particular as it's hard to trust someone's woodworking advice when they're 'sponsored by nord vpn', 'skillshare' type of companies. I do like Jory Brigham's stuff but more from a work-inspiration perspective and he's not really a 'youtuber'. In the early days I used to watch a lot of Steve Ramsey's woodworking for mere mortals. I find youtube mostly great for specific-tool reviews and tricks/tips for using a specific tool.

I'm not really in a rush for anything, I don't intend 'making my money back' in any way shape or form and i'm not even calling it an 'investment' in a financial sense. If anything it's an investment in me & what I enjoy doing but nothing more.