Tongue and Groove plus Glue (plus Dowels!?)

[Stevekane]

Hi, Im making up some oak windows in a sort of rustic style (as befits my skills!) anyway the frame is roughly 25mm x 75/100mm and amounts to Stile and Rail with a glazed centre panel.
Ive cut the Grooves on the Stiles and its my intention to continue the tongue around the ends of the rails, make these joints which are around 12mm deep with glue and have the centre panel loose. But Im wondering if the joints need the additional support of say a couple of dowels?
Im aware that as a self taught amateur I tend to overbuild things and that dowels are not what I would expect to see in this situation, but what do you think?
Ps I know that a mortice and tennon would have been preferable but its been an “evolving design!”
Steve.

 

[Yojevol]

I'm trying to interpret what you have described here. I take it that the stiles and top rail are being made from 25 x 75 and the bottom rail out of 25 x 100. You want to hold your glass panel in a groove in all 4 frame members. This will mean you will have to include the panel when assembling the frame where it will be trapped for ever more. Better to turn the grooves into rebates and secure the panel with beadings after installation.
I presume the frame is going into a wall in which case the joints do not need to be of great strength, however for the longer term I would like to see more stability. If you are short of length in your rails for M&T joints you could lengthen them with glued in tenons, ie, mortise the rails as well as the stiles.
I hope this makes sense.
Brian

 

[Stevekane]

Many thanks Brian, yes I didnt explain that too well, but essentially your correct, I suppose its being built like a cupboard door, stile and rail and the centre panel is wood with as you say a rebated glass panel inset, this “door” will sit inside a frame where its likely to be top hung and may ocasionaly be opened,,hence my slight concern about the corners. I too had thought about loose tennons but I beleive that dowels are very strong too and with my trusty Stanley Jig I could fairly easily add a couple of dowels to each corner,,,but with modern glues is it really necessary,,,or do I revert to belt and braces and add a couple anyway?
Steve.

 

[Jameshow]

Hi, Im making up some oak windows in a sort of rustic style (as befits my skills!) anyway the frame is roughly 25mm x 75/100mm and amounts to Stile and Rail with a glazed centre panel.
Ive cut the Grooves on the Stiles and its my intention to continue the tongue around the ends of the rails, make these joints which are around 12mm deep with glue and have the centre panel loose. But Im wondering if the joints need the additional support of say a couple of dowels?
Im aware that as a self taught amateur I tend to overbuild things and that dowels are not what I would expect to see in this situation, but what do you think?
Ps I know that a mortice and tennon would have been preferable but its been an “evolving design!”
Steve.

I recently made a simalar set of simple windows for a book library using t and g flooring the groove being the housing for the glass and also for the stile tenon.. not had any issues.

 

[Stevekane]

Those doors look very smart indeed James and are very much the style of my ones with the exception of the glass, my centre section will be a glazed wooden panel. Some of my concerns are about wood movement, they are external windows made from air dried oak, the rails will not want to expand in length and I shouldnt need to worry about the Stiles but the centre panel could exert some pressure on the joints if I get it wrong and dont leave enough room for it to move, its made from the same 25mm oak and is bit less than 300mm wide, I was going to give it around 5mm either side?
Steve.