Titebond

[Reffc]

Looking for some feedback amongst the veneering specialists. I've usually used a filtered D3 PVA veneer when using my vacuum press for larger panels but just wondering if anyone has tried the Titebond Cold Press glue and if so, what it was like? My workshop isn't presently heated and coming up to the colder months I have several large speaker commissions requiring panels up to 1m x 750mm for veneering. Invariably, I use a vacuum press to veneer the main front baffles then apply the rest of the veneer post construction by hand and am perfectly happy using titebond II or Everbuild 502 to do that but they have relatively short open times and faffing about with applying glue to larger panels then placing in vacuum bags can sometimes take 10 minutes or more before I start the pump. I appreciate that as temperature drops, open times extend, but advice welcomed as my usual supplier's costs have risen to the point that it may be worth considering options.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have used both D3 PVAs and Titebond Cold Press but prefer UF glues myself.

Ureka in Bristol are very knowledgeable and I am sure would advise if required, they also have summer cure UF and PVAs.

https://www.thenamethatsticks.com/p...et/?page=1&rt=/products/&qt=Urea Formaldehyde
Cheers

Peter

 

[Reffc]

Thanks Peter. What is it about UF glues you prefer for veneer work? I’ve used them for laminating and some joinery but like using one pack pva glues for veneering ( I guess it’s what I’m most used to) although I’ve tried fish glues in the past for smaller jobs.

 

[thetyreman]

UF is used because it won't swell the wood as it's not water based like PVA, it also has a long open time too.

 

[Reffc]

The better open time’s a good thing for vacuum pressing. Never had any issues with plywood in terms of swelling causing me issues when veneering though.

 

[yetloh]

I agree with Peter. There are also a couple of othe points. First PVA joints can creep under sideways pressure which UF will not, although probably not relevant to a vacuum pressed speaker panel. Second if you inadvertantly get a small area of inadequate glue coverage leading to a bubble (as has happened to me) you can make a scalpel slit and inject more UF glue, clamp locally and it will be fine, but PVA will not adhere reliably to cured PVA. After 10 years the table top I had the problem with remains perfect.

Jim

 

[Peter Sefton]

@Reffc as mentioned by some of the other replies benefits of UF include.

More open time and this can be varied with different hardeners, and cure times related to room or pressing temperature

Cure time can be shortened with heat (an electric blanket) or radio frequency for high production

Less bleed through and can be varied with the addition of extenders

Better gap filling as it cures on max

No creep and non reversible via stress, heat or moister

Easy to add pigments to glue giving lighter glue lines for maple / darker for ebony or to fill holes in burr

The downside is shelf life (improved if stored cool) but some D4 PVAs also have short shelf life

You may want to search the forum its a topic that has been discussed a few times over the years, the old topics may suggest other suppliers but I think Ureka may prove your best option.

Cheers

Peter

 

[Reffc]

Thank you Peter. Food for thought there and I will try it and do some test panels using it against the PVA. Bleed through isn't much of an issue as I use pulp backed veneers but staining of veneers can be an issue as with PVA it can ruin the finish, not that it's happened on any I've done yet (I always tape off areas which have been veneered to prevent this). I would still be interested in hearing back from those who've specifically tried Titebond old press Glue though, as I couldn't find much from the search function in relation to my use.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Titebond cold press is ok, I have used it a few times and we used to sell it. Just make sure you give it a good stir as it separates. It has an additive to reduce bleed through which it what needs mixing in prior to use from memory.

Cheers

Peter

 

[Reffc]

Thanks Peter. Truth be told, on quite an important commission and don't want to experiment with different glues for this one so will stick with what I know in the PVA and buy some UF glue to use on a trial, instead of a customer's workpiece! If it works out better, I'll make the switch.

 

[johnnyb]

cold press glue has a hilarious benefit in that it smells a bit of trump. nothing like workshop toilet humour to pass the time.

 

[Reffc]

That’s ok, I filter the air

 

[recipio]

I use Titebond cold press as I mainly make veneered boxes now. I have to say I like it as it resists dripping and bleed through. While not perfect on open grain veneers, any bleed through sands away without any staining. It also seems to have an open time of about 20 mins perfect for veneering.

 

[Reffc]

Sounds good. I mainly use veneers which Reliance Veneers pulp back for me to stabilise them, so bleed through's rarely an issue. Could be the ideal glue for the vacuum press. I lightly tape around the edges to increase resistance to creep as the workpiece is fed into the vacuum bag, leaving a slight overhang which I later trim using a router. In the summer months grab is an issue so I use a burnished Oak block as a sort of smooth veneer hammer to get the veneer to grab then pop it into the bag but this time of year open times extend so having the extra time is a bonus.

 

[recipio]

As an addendum we all probably put on too much glue when veneering. Use a short nap roller for an even spread.

 

[Reffc]

Yes, I agree and too much causes swelling of the veneer as it soaks up the glue resulting in creases and bubbles as well as creep. I tend to apply a thin coat to both surfaces and either use a burnishing block, working from the centre out, or a rubber roller to apply pressure before clamping, putting in the vacuum press or using an iron on medium heat (and an oak block to press and remove the heat causing the glue to grab) working across the panel until the veneer is down and the glue grabs.