Titanic

[deema]

There are so few subs that can reach 3800m down that most if any back up systems are worthless. I’d put it in the same category as the death zone on Mount Everest. You have an issue in that zone, you’re not coming home.
Two things strike me, firstly, that the sub is pushing boundaries, the technology development and in essence testing is being paid for by the ‘tourists’. Secondly, I suspect that the rescue efforts will be paid for by either the company’s insurance or indeed the families of those on board. Not much in the USA is free.

 

[John Brown]

Except there was nothing political about Deema's post.

Hilarious.

 

[John Brown]

Presumably with no money.

And yet studies have shown that immigration has a net positive effect on the UK economy.

 

[Jacob]

And yet studies have shown that immigration has a net positive effect on the UK economy.

On all economies everywhere throughout history. They go where the work is and increase GDP. They come from where there is no work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-65983001

 

[Noel]

And there was I thinking we could have a chat about a news item without a few flutes popping up and derailing things with opinions on immigration etc. Go elsewhere with that.
So let's stick to deep sea tourists and related matters please.
The folk that perished made a poor choice, 100% and it's a tragedy for their families and I hope such expeditions to the Titanic are stopped.

 

[Jameshow]

And there was I thinking we could have a chat about a news item without a few flutes popping up and derailing things with opinions on immigration etc. Go elsewhere with that.
So let's stick to deep sea tourists and related matters please.
The folk that perished made a poor choice, 100% and it's a tragedy for their families and I hope such expeditions to the Titanic are stopped.

Or at least regulated!!

 

[John Brown]

Especially those setting off to cross the med or channel. Good point well made Paul

Just be aware, you can jump in Jacob all you want, but this was the point where it became political.

 

[Noel]

Please............. : )

 

[mwinfrance]

Or at least regulated!!

it's on ( or under ) the "high seas" though..regulation there ? whos's rules and regs? enforced how and by whom?

 

[thetyreman]

sad conclusion, they should have listened to the guy who got sacked for suggesting the glass was not good enough at the depth! the world needs more people like him.

 

[selectortone]

The Wikipedia page on OceanGate has details about the development of the Titan submersible. It all sound a bit Heath Robinson. It suggests that the titanium shell was only rated to 4000m for one trip and should have been dived to progressively lesser depths thereafter. Also, the manufacturer of the porthole material would not guarantee it for depths greater than 1500m.

 

[deema]

The problem with testing, is the issue of actually creating a test system to apply the pressure to test the sub (381 bar at 3800m in sea water). These are ridiculously extreme conditions. You can design for any situation, but you can’t necessarily test for those extremes, or indeed offer a guarantee. A bit like square windows that downed the UK passenger jet industry, but led to safety for all in the jet age.

 

[John Brown]

@John Brown to be accurate, it’s page 1, post 10 that was political. But you chose to select my post, now that was political. My post wasn’t as far as I know with any political bias or inference at all. It was rather ironic to highlight the variance in the view being proposed. You can’t say one thing applies to one group of people and not accept it should also apply to another. You, chose to make it political.

To be fair, I can, see your point. I didn't really associate the reference to the Mediterranean with immigration, not kept up with the news so much lately. I think you were making a political point, but I accept that you were not the instigator, and so please accept my apology.

 

[mwinfrance]

It was "voyeur tourism" ( visit an underwater mass grave ) , like the people who take selfies at Auschwitz , incomprehensible , to me at least.

 

[deema]

It was "voyeur tourism" ( visit an underwater mass grave ) , like the people who take selfies at Auschwitz , incomprehensible , to me at least.

Yes, a good point. However, the same was said about trains, cars and aeroplanes. Nobody really appreciated or understood why they were being invented or what use they might be. However, once developed a use was found that has greatly enhanced mankind. A lot of people died developing air travel.

 

[Jameshow]

it's on ( or under ) the "high seas" though..regulation there ? whos's rules and regs? enforced how and by whom?

Bureau veritas
https://certification.bureauveritas.com/
Lloyds to name but two.

https://www.lr.org/en/marine-shipping/

 

[mwinfrance]

Bureau veritas
https://certification.bureauveritas.com/
Lloyds to name but two.

https://www.lr.org/en/marine-shipping/

They would have enforced an interdiction for this "vessel" ( I use the word loosely ) to dive to the Titanic site how ? Why did they not do so ? They have no enforcement power. They have no navy.

 

[deema]

I ran for a short time a company that made deep sea recovery / rescue systems for the both subs and divers. Im not absolutely certain but as far as I remember under a certain depth there is no certification or rules. It’s so extreme, that virtually nobody develops stuff for it so, as a consequence nobody invests in developing rules and regulations that are most created from analysis of disasters.

 

[Ed Weber]

it's on ( or under ) the "high seas" though..regulation there ? whos's rules and regs? enforced how and by whom?

That's one reason it failed, IMO
Apparently, even the voluntary certification within the tiny submersible industry was skipped by this guy and his company.
As far as testing goes, we now have remote sensors and cameras of all sorts that can take more readings and data than you could ever need. The humans can stay safely on a boat and decide when and if something is indeed safe. This is nothing like testing early autos or planes.

 

[mwinfrance]

Yes, a good point. However, the same was said about trains, cars and aeroplanes. Nobody really appreciated or understood why they were being invented or what use they might be. However, once developed a use was found that has greatly enhanced mankind. A lot of people died developing air travel.

Not the same. This "vessel's" sole purpose was rubbernecking. The "tech" for deep dive vessels exists ( witness the "rescue vessels sent to the scene ), the difference between them and this vessel is that this was a "Rube Goldberg" device, cobbled together to transport rich tourists to a depth which the viewing port and other parts ( and the combination of them and the methods used in the construction ) were already known to be not capable of repeated dives to those depths without breaking.
the people running it were / are chancers, not engineers, whose luck ran out.

Carbon fibre isn't magical.