Tiger Moths

[Gordon Tarling]

Just to add my 2p's worth, I'd pretty much go along with all that AES has said, except that I feel some weight in the wood you use for the blades would be beneficial, just to help with the flywheel effect when you let it go. Don't add lead though!
I've been into aviation all my life - started aeromodelling around the age of 10, became an apprentice with BOAC at 16 and stayed with them (later BA) until I retired in 2011. I never bothered to get a pilot's license, though I have flown a few types with an instructor, the Tiger Moth being my firm favourite!

Gordon

 

[AES]

Just to add my 2p's worth, I'd pretty much go along with all that AES has said, except that I feel some weight in the wood you use for the blades would be beneficial, just to help with the flywheel effect when you let it go. Don't add lead though!
I've been into aviation all my life - started aeromodelling around the age of 10, became an apprentice with BOAC at 16 and stayed with them (later BA) until I retired in 2011. I never bothered to get a pilot's license, though I have flown a few types with an instructor, the Tiger Moth being my firm favourite!

Gordon

Hi Gordon, AES here. You sound to be about the same age as my UK mate Richard Schofield, also a BOAC/BA apprentice. Know him by any chance! Before retiring, when I (and he) had our own business I worked with him a lot - a fine engineer.

I'd go along with your point about weight to a certain extent, except that Cooper doesn't tell us WHY he had no success with his efforts so far. I suspect he's behind the "drag/available power curve". I therefore "hope" that his hub, plus the string bobbin should provide some help with the flywheel effect - but good point though, thanks.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Cooper, actually no, I didn't know that the Mosquitoes couldn't be used in India for the reasons you mention. But I understand why not. I remember once reading that the Mosquitoes were assembled with a urea formaldehyde glue, still available today as Aerolite 300. I've used it in the past and its a good adhesive but it's water resistant, not water proof and degrades over time, especially so in moist climates. The Americans were using resorcinal glues which were vastly superior, especially on structures where a bit of flex is anticipated. That's the reason that wooden mast makers still use resorcinal today instead of the more popular epoxies. For some reason the air ministry declined to licence resorcinal for use on Mosquitoes.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

AES - the name rings a bell, but I'm fairly sure he wasn't in my intake year.

Gordon

 

[AES]

Cooper, actually no, I didn't know that the Mosquitoes couldn't be used in India for the reasons you mention. But I understand why not. I remember once reading that the Mosquitoes were assembled with a urea formaldehyde glue, still available today as Aerolite 300. I've used it in the past and its a good adhesive but it's water resistant, not water proof and degrades over time, especially so in moist climates. The Americans were using resorcinal glues which were vastly superior, especially on structures where a bit of flex is anticipated. That's the reason that wooden mast makers still use resorcinal today instead of the more popular epoxies. For some reason the air ministry declined to licence resorcinal for use on Mosquitoes.

Yes folks, I also believe they were the famous ply/balsa/play sandwiches and assembled with urea formaldehyde glue (used I believe, in a lot of trad boat building, even today - but the stuff that "masquerades" under the name "Polyvine" - and others - is NOT quite the same as Aerolite. I've tried Polyvine on the front wings of "that" MG and it was, at best, just "OK")!

I haven't heard about Mossies in India, but do remember having heard of at least one of them breaking up while still in RAF service just after WWII when based in Singapore. Whether that's due to "just" the climate there (VERY warm and humid - I lived there for 5 years) and/or due to termites, (which are a huge problem for wooden structures in Singapore); or due to a combination of all of those I don't know.

But Mossies were built in Oz during WWII (by Hawker Pacific - or whatever they were called then - at Bankstown, near Sydney) so I wonder how they got on? OK in NSW & Vic I guess, but somewhere like Cairns has a very similar climate to Singapore?

 

[AES]

AES - the name rings a bell, but I'm fairly sure he wasn't in my intake year.

Gordon

Yes Gordon, I guess he may have been a year or two after you. Like me he retired in 2015. Amongst others he worked on B707s (R-R powered), VC 10s, and B737-200s (Airtours). Before going it alone, he was a resident tech rep on 146s for "BAe" (Hatfield) at Crossair Basel, and Ansett (amongst others). Blimey, names from the past!

 

[rafezetter]

Thank you for your comments.
In reply to AES as to the 'how and why', I have an interest in aviation from a technical viewpoint and started building models by accident, wondering if it was possible to accurately replicate an aeroplane in wood. I sold this first model (spitfire) and word of mouth took over and my order book currently stands at 11 aeroplanes. My customers think I must have quite a collection of my own by now but in fact I do not have a single one. Once they are built and all the difficulties associated with their construction overcome I lose interest in them. Thankfully my clientele do not and keep ordering more which is great for me as I get to enjoy them for a couple of days after completion and then I courier them off to their new homes.
Concerning the plans, Iine drawings for pretty much anything that drives, floats or flies are available from The-blueprints.com. These are downloaded and converted into working drawings and adjusted for the scale I wish to build in - all my fighter aircraft are 40 :1 which for a Spitfire equates to a wingspan of from memory 32cm. I template all the components in 3mm MDF which I get free from our local window glass company. Glass comes wrapped in thin MDF sheets for protection. Currently I have full templates for around 30 aircraft. I essentially use recycled NZ Rimu and occasionally mahogany which I now also get for nothing. We live in a small village and people soon get to know what you're up to so I am given old bed heads, dressers etc. The beauty of modelling is that a beaten up old chest of drawers will still yield usable bits of timber but useless for bigger projects. I cut the components to the required thickness on my 70 year old 8" bench saw and then to shape on an el-cheapo scroll saw. Then it's a lot of shaping and constantly checking, mainly with a low angle block plane (my all time favorite tool) a few different spokeshaves and then up through the different grades of sandpaper finishing with 400 grit and 0000 steel wool between coats of Teak oil. I use epoxy glue in the assembly and all parts are also pinned together for strength using 1.6mm diameter stainless steel rods, also known as broken bicycle spokes which our local bike shop gives me.
One of the great pleasures is figuring out now to do stuff. Obviously I needed some sort of small lathe which were eye wateringly expensive so I built one using scrounged bits. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I'm a bit of a bludger. ... It's a bit rough and ready but I can turn to 0.1mm which is near enough for me.
View attachment 109659
And I get a lot out of fun in building simple jigs for certain functions. Here's another roughie for drilling and spacing propellor blades into spinners
View attachment 109660
So there is as much pleasure to be had in figuring things out as in creating something that interests me, but there are also disadvantages in not coming from a woodworking background. I have only recently discovered the wonders of the Dremel tool and its many attachments. Why didnt i know about this before?

They all look so good! - I've been making model kits since I was young as well and have only made one foray into making a wooden model, of a Red Arrow, I think it was the Gnat as I was 7, which would have made it '77, before they changed to the hawks in '79. I do still have it though.

P38's are one of my favorite planes because of the lines, but only marginally above pretty much almost all the others, I can't wait to go to another airshow hopefully in the next year or two.

Can I ask if you ship internationally?

 

[Jonzjob]

Well Kittyhawk, you have some you have some lovely models there mate!. I have to admit that I'm one of the build it and chuck it off the side of a hill or send it up a bungy or tow line. I am building a 1/4 scale (4.3m span) 1936 German SFS Habicht at the moment. Don't ask when I started it or I'll burst in to tears! Balsa and ply and to be covered with heat shrink material

One of the joys of it are the Frise ailerons ! Finding the hinge points has been aa total nightmare, but I think I have it hacked now?

I too am ex R.A.F. as an aircraft electrician and I left in 1974 after 14 years including my 18 months Boy Entrant training at St Athans. I spent my time on Britannias, Comet2 and 4Cs at Lyneham. Then had to suffer 2 1/2 years in Singapore and back to Brize Norton on VC10s and Belslugs sorry, Belfasts.

I have always been close to aircraft being a 'scaly brat', Old man in the R.A.F., and growing up on airfields. Now I love both building and flying my models. I never could get the hang of chopper-copters though. Ridiculous things and they should logically screw themselves into the ground instead of taking off!

Anyway, I have hijacqued your thread long enough with my rantings. I will say again that the models you are making are lovely things and I'll bet they take pride of place were they live.

Just before I go here is another of my 'builds' a Sopwith Camel built from a kit and totally made of flat foam sheeting! Completely ridiculous, but great fun to fly on still daze!

That's me in the background

 

[AES]

Lovely looking Habitch Jon.

 

[Jonzjob]

Thank you AES. I hope that it flies as well as it looks? The original has a very interesting history. A little bit of it here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFS_Habicht

 

[AES]

Thanks for the link Jon. I already knew a bit about the aeroplane, but there was a lot of new stuff for me there too - e.g using a "clipped wing" version to train Me 163 Komet pilots in WWII! Thanks.

Know anything about the Minimoa? I had a Keil Kraft (free flight) scale-ish model when I was a kid. It flew great but getting the rigging angles right on those gull wings was a real "adventure" for a 12 year old!

 

[AES]

@Cooper:

As you said you've printed out my "Helo Instructions" (see my post #16 above) I thought you may like to know that I've just noticed I've left something out, sorry.

Re the Sketch B, the vertical line showing the position of the highest point of the wings (should be marked line c-d but "d" - on the curved, top surface of the wing) isn't marked, sorry) should be about 10 to 15% max of the Chord dimension (line a-b).

HTH

 

[Kittyhawk]

Rafezetter, I recently looked at courier to the UK but it's just ridiculously expensive - £185 which is more than twice the cost of the aeroplane in the box.
Jon, love that glider and the workmanship is superb. After all the hours of work that's gone into it, launching the completed model on its maiden flight must be accompanied with a slight sense of trepidation? I would cry if the paint had do much as a scuff mark. I wonder why the glider has a gull wing? And interesting to see the flying Sopwith Camel. Aircraft No.3 in my order book is for a Camel and having never built one before, looking forward to it.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Whoops...Sorry Rafezetter. Apparently that huge amount of cash is for a courier delivery and normal parcel post is a fraction of that. I blame my wife of course because she doesn't properly check what I'm doing. But yes, I have sent a BF109-E to Norway a while ago.

 

[rafezetter]

Whoops...Sorry Rafezetter. Apparently that huge amount of cash is for a courier delivery and normal parcel post is a fraction of that. I blame my wife of course because she doesn't properly check what I'm doing. But yes, I have sent a BF109-E to Norway a while ago.

Ty for that info, what is the rough lead time for an order now? I must assume it's almost a year if you have 11 already on the books?