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I am going to have to start taking things even more seriously than I normally do.

We have just got back from the normal late night shopping trip. No customers as usual but not much left on the shelves either. No canned toms, no pasta, very little veg - but more worryingly NO TOILET PAPER.

You can always tell that the country heading for disaster if peoples main concern is to buy toilet paper by the shed load.
We were quite lucky when we redid or bathroom in Feb this year, just before the lockdown, we had installed a heated ****** spray by the toilet.

Thought it might come in handy for obvious reasons and for washing down the little monster after he would have a poonami (he wasn't born then, but a rare foresight)

When the first lockdown hit and all the people were fighting over the TP stocks, we were fairly content knowing our derriere is covered!

Now that we have had the little man for nearly 9 months, it has been invaluable!!!
 
The way I see this whole lockdown / Covid tier system is....here goes...It's a massive power grab. A power grab with addition of public funds, those funds (tax payers money, yours and mine) have been shifted from public hands into private. 12 Billion GBP to Serco for example. The virus is real, it kills people, but so does every other disease on the planet. We all die. Our freedoms has been eroded right before our eyes and right under our noses.

My view (which I suspect is wholly opposite to 90% of the views on here) may sound outrageous to you but it's always healthy to consider an opposing opinion before immediately discounting it because it's the polar opposite to "mine". If allowed to carry on there will be no economy left. The talk of Universal Income is horrifying. People should be able to earn their own money, run their own businesses & all without a heavy handed State ordering people around. This is meant to a Democracy we live in!

This virus has been weaponised & policitised in order to control the masses by governments all over the world and have allowed laws to be passed (Yes LAWS) with ZERO debate and NO VOTES by our MP's in Parliment under the guise of "it's a pandemic" a "national crisis" unprecidented in peace time Britain - all I've said here are verifiable facts, please, go ahead i urge you to look up them for yourself.

The human body can fight off any disease known or unknown if the immune system isn't compromised. For example take the time to READ the life's works of the Austrian herbalist Maria Treben. Pharmacological medicine is allopathic, it treats symptoms & not the body as a holistic whole. Another example, if one looks at the life of Paracelus the Swiss Physician one would find the mixture of herbs (11 in fact) known commonly as "Swedish Bitters". Bitter foods have been lost in the UK/US Western diet. The taste bitter isn't bad for you it's GOOD for you. Besides the benefits for ones digestion and a whole load of other diseases this can stop the onslaught of the latter stages of Covid (aka - an upper respiratory infections) never mind stopping it dead in it's tracks. The latter stages of Covid are known as a "Ketone storm" where the immune system attacks itself and organ failure starts to kicks in. I really think herbal medicine has it's place in our NHS, if not people should wake up to its efficacy. I know this all sounds too good to be true but for someone who had all the hallmarks of the disease back in mid January (I'm in my late 30's, played football and rugby and done many martial arts all my life - i'm fairly fit bloke - I couldn't get halfway up the stairs! I do an active job, telecoms engineer - climbing ladders etc etc) of this year I have followed my own advice and recovered using this simple but powerful concoction of herbs.

I'm not saying the clinically vulnerable shouldn't shield, I'm not saying go around hugging each other and have 20 over at christmas, all I'm saying is that for millennia humans have healed with herbs and western medicine and science isn't the magic elixir for all our ills and ailments. Listening to the radio and news, with it's body count and infection rate over and over for the past 9 months and you will start to believe what is spoon fed to you. It will also make to so unbeliveably scared out of your mind that you are unable to leave your bedroom let alone your house! Even if you are perfectly fit and well! For your body to 'able' and your mind to 'sick' because someone 'a professor!' has told you so! Now that makes me so ANGRY......... REALLY ANGRY!

All this post is about is a plea to your thinking brain, your logical brain - I'm begging you to all THINK. I'm a key worker in telecoms, I respect all others opinions, I abide by all the 'rules'! I won't stand too close to you at Tesco's and I wash my hands, wear gloves and a mask as i'm told to do but it doesn't mean I agree with it. I find the waste and damage to the enviroment abhorrent. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, i'm not an anti anything. I'm a man, a human like you and I CARE. I CARE about my fellow man/woman & the enviroment we live in and the freedoms we all have clearly taken for granted.

What does concern me greatly is mis-information and people being brainwashed. Brainwashed and robbed. Robbed by people whom millions voted for. Politicians of whichever colour, on whichever side of the House are not out for you or I - They are out for themselves.

You cannot blindly accept what 'they' tell you without considering anothers opinion. Otherwise you haven't got a chance of defending your own.

Ps - I love wood, I love woodworking in all it's forms. I did a year long professional designer maker course on a sabbatical from my employer 18months ago and it was the best time of my life - there are time served trademen on this forum all working with such a beautiful material, I doff my cap to you all. My plan is to earn a living working with wood. May you all have a magical Christmas/Festive Period & New Year. Here's to a great 2021.

*Steps down off soapbox*
 
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In those ONS pages linked by Jacob it states top cause of death in September 2020 to be Alzheimer's and Dementia with Covid oddly as the 19th highest cause of death. Those comparing this pandemic to real disasters like Spanish Flu or the Black Death are way off the mark, it has been calculated that pro rata per population the Spanish Flu would by this stage in our "Pandemic" have killed about 120m and has been recorded the Black Death literally decimated the population of Europe. You will never succeed in running away from this virus it will run it's course and be gone, this pandemic will be recorded as a bizarre act of mass hysteria in years to come. Yes it is real, yes it can be a nasty thing and even kill you if your immune system is lacking but it is not a serious enough disease to shut down the world and destroy the economy for!
Why don't you drop a line to the various science institutions, epidemiologists and other experts and tell them you've seen a flaw in their arguments? If you are right you could save the world from a lot of bother!
 
Why don't you drop a line to the various science institutions, epidemiologists and other experts and tell them you've seen a flaw in their arguments? If you are right you could save the world from a lot of bother!

The government knows this, it's the fact they lie to us and continue in spite of the evidence to carry on down the path to destruction that is so worrying.
 
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MCT
That is a good thoughtful post and not a mad rant.
I don't know if the power grab is intentional by governments, (and am not saying you are either), but big pharma and big biz will always try to 'power grab' as the economy relies on growth, otherwise it shrinks. The irony is that 'the economy' is banded about as the be all and end all, yet it too isnt actually 'real'. Money and the markets are manipulated all the time as people try to get an edge over competitors and governments fiddling around the edges (and our pensions etc require them so to do). I think it's probably more the nation states' hang ups with their own economies that lead to the loud cries of Shame!

It seems Taiwan and South Korea may have handled it a little better without crushing their economy, but I doubt the post colonial West will want to learn from 'Johnny foreigner'
 
The updated statistics for November at the ONS link show a marked increase in deaths directly attributable to Covid-19 as the underlying cause of death. In both England and Wales in November it was the leading cause of death.

It's worth noting that from 2001 to 2018, for the whole family of coronaviruses, in England and Wales, there were just 12 deaths directly attributable to a coronavirus, and a further 13 where it was a contributory factor:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...mortalityanalysisenglandandwales/november2020
Some snippets:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) was the leading cause of death in November 2020 for the first time since May 2020 in both England (accounting for 18.1% of all deaths registered in November) and Wales (21.6% of all deaths. Based on provisional data, there were 47,910 deaths registered in England in November 2020. This was 5,630 more deaths than in November 2019 and 6,241 deaths more than the five-year average (2015 to 2019)

In this bulletin, we use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19 and we use the term "involving COVID-19" when referring to deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not.

In both England and Wales, the coronavirus (COVID-19) was the leading cause of death in November 2020, with 191.3 deaths per 100,000 people in England (8,686 deaths) and 260.0 deaths per 100,000 people in Wales (726 deaths). COVID-19 has not been the leading cause of death since May 2020. The disease has risen from the third most common cause of death registered in England and Wales in October 2020.

The rate of deaths due to COVID-19 was significantly higher than the next leading cause of death in both England and Wales. In England, the second most common cause of death in November 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer's disease, with 104.7 deaths per 100,000 people (4,772 deaths).

In Wales, ischaemic heart diseases were the second most common cause of death, with 113.5 deaths per 100,000 people (316 deaths). The COVID-19 mortality rate was more than double the next leading cause of death (ischaemic heart diseases) in Wales.

Coronaviruses:

The World Health Organization (WHO) defines coronaviruses as "a large family of viruses that are known to cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS)". Between 2001 and 2018, there were 12 deaths in England and Wales due to a coronavirus infection, with a further 13 deaths mentioning the virus as a contributory factor on the death certificate.

End quote.

No doubt due to continued lack of social responsibility Covid-19 will go about its business and continue to prove Darwin's theory of the non-survival of the stupidest. Nothing will change. The vaccine won't help much in the short term - infections increase exponentially, the rate at which injections can be administered can only be increased linearly.
 
The way I see this whole lockdown / Covid tier system is....here goes...It's a massive power grab. A power grab with addition of public funds, those funds (tax payers money, yours and mine) have been shifted from public hands into private. 12 Billion GBP to Serco for example. The virus is real, it kills people, but so does every other disease on the planet. We all die. Our freedoms has been eroded right before our eyes and right under our noses.

My view (which I suspect is wholly opposite to 90% of the views on here) may sound outrageous to you but it's always healthy to consider an opposing opinion before immediately discounting it because it's the polar opposite to "mine". If allowed to carry on there will be no economy left. The talk of Universal Income is horrifying. People should be able to earn their own money, run their own businesses & all without a heavy handed State ordering people around. This is meant to a Democracy we live in!

This virus has been weaponised & policitised in order to control the masses by governments all over the world and have allowed laws to be passed (Yes LAWS) with ZERO debate and NO VOTES by our MP's in Parliment under the guise of "it's a pandemic" a "national crisis" unprecidented in peace time Britain - all I've said here are verifiable facts, please, go ahead i urge you to look up them for yourself.

The human body can fight off any disease known or unknown if the immune system isn't compromised. For example take the time to READ the life's works of the Austrian herbalist Maria Treben. Pharmacological medicine is allopathic, it treats symptoms & not the body as a holistic whole. Another example, if one looks at the life of Paracelus the Swiss Physician one would find the mixture of herbs (11 in fact) known commonly as "Swedish Bitters". Bitter foods have been lost in the UK/US Western diet. The taste bitter isn't bad for you it's GOOD for you. Besides the benefits for ones digestion and a whole load of other diseases this can stop the onslaught of the latter stages of Covid (aka - an upper respiratory infections) never mind stopping it dead in it's tracks. The latter stages of Covid are known as a "Ketone storm" where the immune system attacks itself and organ failure starts to kicks in. I really think herbal medicine has it's place in our NHS, if not people should wake up to its efficacy. I know this all sounds too good to be true but for someone who had all the hallmarks of the disease back in mid January (I'm in my late 30's, played football and rugby and done many martial arts all my life - i'm fairly fit bloke - I couldn't get halfway up the stairs! I do an active job, telecoms engineer - climbing ladders etc etc) of this year I have followed my own advice and recovered using this simple but powerful concoction of herbs.

I'm not saying the clinically vulnerable shouldn't shield, I'm not saying go around hugging each other and have 20 over at christmas, all I'm saying is that for millennia humans have healed with herbs and western medicine and science isn't the magic elixir for all our ills and ailments. Listening to the radio and news, with it's body count and infection rate over and over for the past 9 months and you will start to believe what is spoon fed to you. It will also make to so unbeliveably scared out of your mind that you are unable to leave your bedroom let alone your house! Even if you are perfectly fit and well! For your body to 'able' and your mind to 'sick' because someone 'a professor!' has told you so! Now that makes me so ANGRY......... REALLY ANGRY!

All this post is about is a plea to your thinking brain, your logical brain - I'm begging you to all THINK. I'm a key worker in telecoms, I respect all others opinions, I abide by all the 'rules'! I won't stand too close to you at Tesco's and I wash my hands, wear gloves and a mask as i'm told to do but it doesn't mean I agree with it. I find the waste and damage to the enviroment abhorrent. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, i'm not an anti anything. I'm a man, a human like you and I CARE. I CARE about my fellow man/woman & the enviroment we live in and the freedoms we all have clearly taken for granted.

What does concern me greatly is mis-information and people being brainwashed. Brainwashed and robbed. Robbed by people whom millions voted for. Politicians of whichever colour, on whichever side of the House are not out for you or I - They are out for themselves.

You cannot blindly accept what 'they' tell you without considering anothers opinion. Otherwise you haven't got a chance of defending your own.

Ps - I love wood, I love woodworking in all it's forms. I did a year long professional designer maker course on a sabbatical from my employer 18months ago and it was the best time of my life - there are time served trademen on this forum all working with such a beautiful material, I doff my cap to you all. My plan is to earn a living working with wood. May you all have a magical Christmas/Festive Period & New Year. Here's to a great 2021.

*Steps down off soapbox*

I hear what you are saying and it is very well laid out set of points as well.

I lived in India for the first 22 years of my life. Herbal medicines are huge there. It is called Ayurveda and there is a huge industry now.
So much that one can study for 5 years and become a doctor in Ayurveda, which is a non intrusive way of treating issues, meaning no surgeries or cutting open the skin in any way.

However, the issue is, once people realize there is a market and a potential monetary advantage, things start to take a turn for the worst. Companies making medicines sometimes don't conform to certain medical standards in order to get their products of the shelves sooner. The same happens with any form of medical (or at a stretch, any manufacturing entity)

That is why there are standards in place which companies need to follow.

My point in all this is, I have seen people back home who blatantly believe that the government is lying, "Western" medicine (as it is referred to there) is leaps and bounds behind the ancient cures which have been followed for millennia. And that we shouldn't believe what 'they' tell us.

But such is the nature of information. It needs to be passed on. Unless we are qualified to study this or any virus in our own homes, performing year long experiments on unfortunate rodents, draw out results, re test to repeat the results, study the side effects and then come to a new conclusion, we need to have faith in the standards and the information passed on. After all, all the ancient cures weren't handed over to a person, they were again a set of known variables which were treated for years and years and then concluded. It literally took 1000s of years.
And most of the medicines we have now trace their ingredients or origins to nature anyway.

Just because the advancements in science allows our generation of scientists to study something at an advanced pace compared to our ancestors, doesn't automatically mean they are wrong or have a secret agenda.

Am I saying all that we are told is right, no. Am I saying that they have all the answers, no. What I am saying is that no one operation or organisation knows our understands the full picture. They are doing their best to make sense of it all and make decisions based on the latest information they have.

For every good alternate medicine that works, there are 100s of fraudulent "services" that don't work and even cause harm, financially and sometimes even medically. Saying one is right and one is wrong maybe a little bit shortsighted.

It comes back to what was said in the beginning of this thread, no one wants their job right now where all they can say is we hope for the best and make tough decisions which are almost always received in anger.
 
When I was in Singapore I noticed that the university had a Chinese medicine clinic, and did a full 5 year degree in it. If it was totally bunkum I doubt a reputable institution would be teaching it at that level.

The whole thing has probably got bogged down in the fact you can buy pills made of grass and dandelion seeds that "cure cancer" for a fiver. Desperate times, desperate measures and stuff like that is just preying on the vulnerable.

@MCTWoodwork your critique of universal income is interesting. However, the predictions for the future, at one extreme, put the vast proportion of AI power in the hands of the US and China. They could effectively ransom every other economy whilst decimating jobs globally, leaving both no money and no jobs (well, obviously not NO jobs, but you know...) outside their borders. If there's no jobs to do it won't matter how much someone wants to be free of government control. Universal income might be necessary as a way of distributing wealth and income (funded by massively taxing the countries supplying the AI).
 
When I was in Singapore I noticed that the university had a Chinese medicine clinic, and did a full 5 year degree in it. If it was totally bunkum I doubt a reputable institution would be teaching it at that level.

Don't count on that. Just because you can do a degree in it doesn't mean it's effective or backed up by science. You can do degrees in Chiropractic, Osteopathy, Homeopathy, Reiki, Reflexology, any number of quack "medicines". The list goes on. None of them work when tested but still you can get a degree. If there is a money to be made people will take advantage, universities included.
 
Why don't you drop a line to the various science institutions, epidemiologists and other experts and tell them you've seen a flaw in their arguments? If you are right you could save the world from a lot of bother!
They aren't listening Jacob they are following other agenda's. We have been pushed into this with statistics and mathematical projections. I can't remember the numbers I believe it was 50,000 cases a week by September that they were spouting about, unlike you Jacob I don't live in rural Derbyshire I live in the busy and massively overpopulated south east and have worked throughout the "PANDEMIC" the main thing missing for me are sick people and dead people. They just are not there. Meanwhile the over run NHS have hidden away and stopped treating cancer patients and those waiting for non life threatening ops like cataracts may as well go whistle.
I know you don't see it the way I do Jacob sadly there is a good chance you never will with all the scaremongering going on.
 
And if they were as or more effective than mainstream medicines, they'd be the mainstream medicines, wouldn't they?

They certainly would be. Pharmaceutical companies would jump on the chance to market anything available that worked. If Homeopathy worked for instance it would make their profit margins soar.
 
Interesting. Try requesting an ambulance. I'm in South Wales, friend suffered a nasty fall. Was still awaiting assistance 24 hours later, ambulances filled with covid patients stacked outside hospitals too full to admit their patients. Wife's friend's friend with terminal cancer has been told if they get c19 they're on their own as hospital has to prioritise c19 patients with better long term prospects
 
They certainly would be. Pharmaceutical companies would jump on the chance to market anything available that worked. If Homeopathy worked for instance it would make their profit margins soar.
Ditto herbal remedies. The big difference with homeopathy is that many herbal remedies do work and are incorporated (i.e. not as "herbal remedies") into modern medicine, whereas homeopathy doesn't and isn't, except as a harmless placebo. Natural products derived from plants as a source of drugs
 
This all reminds me of one of Bernard Wooley's irregular verbs (from "Yes Prime Minister"). He breaks the law, You bend the rules, I exercise discretion.
 
And if they were as or more effective than mainstream medicines, they'd be the mainstream medicines, wouldn't they?

Absolutely right.

But those who are suffering will look for any port in a storm, or any quack remedy purported to bring relief from whatever they suffer from.

It may have little or no scientific credibilty, but if by spending some money people are convinced it is doing them good then it probably is.

The mind, belief and emotions are powerful things. A little like the covid conspiracy theorists. It doesn't matter there is no credible evidence for their beliefs, that they believe them to be true makes it so. Others may be less than convinced.
 
.....the main thing missing for me are sick people and dead people. They just are not there. .....
Probably because they are tucked away in hospitals or graves.
I've never met anybody whose life has been saved by wearing a seat belt but it doesn't mean they don't work and it's only through statistics that we know this
 
Probably because they are tucked away in hospitals or graves.
I've never met anybody whose life has been saved by wearing a seat belt but it doesn't mean they don't work and it's only through statistics that we know this

I'd have been through a couple of windscreens if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt.
 
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