Through mortices by hand

[heimlaga]

Hello.
I have read this forum occasionally for more than a year but now it is time for a first post.

I am working on a new front door for my parent's house. I join the frame by through mortice and tennon. After cutting four of those mortices in one stile I started thinking that there might be something I do not know.......

First I drill out the bulk with brace and bit from both sides. Then I chop out the mortice with a heavy mortice chisel and finish with ordinary chisels. The process is painfully slow. The wood is slow grown pine which is traditional for doors in my area.

Are there any tricks for doing this job efficiently at home?

I am no hardcore traditionalist but lack money and workshop space for machinery.

 

[OPJ]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Your current approach sounds about right, assuming you don't already have access to a mortising machine. Working in from both sides is very important. You could try using a bit that is 1mm or 2mm smaller than the finished mortise width, which could save some time cleaning up.

Otherwise, using a router may be an option...? :wink:

 

[MikeG.]

Olly's right. If you are doing a number of these, make up an MDF remplate, and the router will do the top inch or so on both sides really neatly. Drilling and chiselling the rest is then child's play.......and you'll have the rounded corners from the routered bit to chisel out.

Otherwise, carry on doing what you are doing.

Mike

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Practice, practice, practice, and a big mallet and sharp chisels.

Pete

 

[head clansman]

Hi heimlaga


keep doing the way you are, it the traditional way of chopping mortices ,

mike graham wrote

Olly's right. If you are doing a number of these, make up an MDF remplate, and the router will do the top inch or so on both sides really neatly. Drilling and chiselling the rest is then child's play.......and you'll have the rounded corners from the routered bit to chisel out.

Otherwise, carry on doing what you are doing.

if your going to do it this way by the time you made the template and you get the router out, set it all up, you can chop out most of the mortices by then, wast of time . hc

 

[MikeG.]

Hi heimlaga


keep doing the way you are, it the traditional way of chopping mortices ,

mike graham wrote

Olly's right. If you are doing a number of these, make up an MDF remplate, and the router will do the top inch or so on both sides really neatly. ......
Otherwise, carry on doing what you are doing.

if your going to do it this way by the time you made the template and you get the router out, set it all up, you can chop out most of the mortices by then, wast of time . hc

Think before you press the send button, HC.

I clearly said "if you are doing a number of these"............"otherwise carry on doing it the way you are doing"

Mike GARNHAM

 

[jhwbigley]

if you've got a good proper mortice chisel and a big enough mallet, it shouldn't be to hard going. don't tap it, hit the bloody thing!


John-Henry

 

[Matt John]

Simple and strong, the mortise and tenon joint has been used for thousands of years by woodworkers around the world to join pieces of wood, usually when the pieces are at an angle close to 90°. Although there are many variations on the theme, the basic idea is that the end of one of the members is inserted into a hole cut in the other member. The end of the first member is called the tenon, and it is usually narrowed with respect to the rest of the piece. The hole in the second member is called the mortise. The joint may be glued, pinned, or wedged to lock it in place.

This joint is also used with other materials and, for example, is a traditional method for stonemasons and blacksmiths.


Thanks

 

[heimlaga]

Thanks!

I have no router so I will continue as before. I suppose training is what I need......and this way I will get it.

 

[head clansman]

hi mike garnham

GARNHAM not GRAHAM ah i see ok got that , sorry about the spelling of your surname .

PLEASE READ MY COMMENTS AGAIN (if your going to do it this way...........

MIKE if you read and understood the original post he clearly says he is working on a front door for his parents home, (a one of) so you see i didn't need to think about my comments no need for routers or templates etc etc( why you think they were needed (if he was doing other) as he clearly WASN'T i don't know) he was asking if he was missing something. as i said a complete waste of time, and still do . Perhaps it,s you who needs to think in future. hc 8)

 

[Saint Simon]

Heimlaga, in the original post you talk about drilling, using a mortice chisel and then tidying up with other chisels. I have basing my chopping of mortices on the principle that you use a mortice chisel of the same width as the width of the slot you want and you don't do any other work on the hole. This means you need a range of morticing chisels of course. Seems to work for me.

 

[MikeG.]

OK HC,

rather than fall out with you, I will simply repeat that I did say "carry on doing it the way you are". That shouldn't be too confusing for anyone.

I would also add that if there are 8 mortices to be cut, as there are in this case, then I would definately make up a jig for the router. This is a 5 to 10 minute job (cutting a rectangle in a piece of MDF, and screwing on a straight-edge). This saves all of the time you would otherwise spend marking out 16 mortices (given that you have to mark both sides of each), as well as saving the time you would have spent producing a clean edge around the outside of the mortice, as well as adjusting mortices to fit. At least you would know that all your mortices would be identical.

Having routed out both sides of each, drill out and bash away in the normal way.

Mike

 

[heimlaga]

I do not have any mortice chisel wide anough to cut the full width at once.

If I did cut the whole width at once with a mortice chisel worhing from both sides wouldn't it be difficult to allign the two mortices from each side so that they meet in the middle?

When I pare off the last one or two millimetres to widen the mortice I get a chance to correct alignment errors.

 

[Philipp]

I am working on a new front door for my parent's house. I join the frame by through mortice and tennon. After cutting four of those mortices in one stile I started thinking that there might be something I do not know.......

Hej Heimlaga,

when building wooden doors for outside use I'd recommend stopped mortices. Through mortices will create end grain in the most important places of the work, the joints. End grain will sooner or later open way for moisture that will creep into your work and perhaps destabilise it.

And since all our work is considered to last for eternity :wink: you might want to give this a thought

Hälsningar, Philipp

 

[head clansman]

hi mike garnham

fall out with me , different folks different strokes , each to his own i suppose. From your reply I could go on but no point, let the readers make up there own minds, traditional, or jigs and hand held routers and then back to traditional ways as the machine could nt complete the job in the first place. IMHO a waste of time. hc

 

[Setch]

Surely the traditional way also involves making an approximation of the mortice with the drill, then turning to a chisel to create the corners 'because the machine couldn't complete the job'.

Whether the machine is a router or a drill is totally irrelevant.

 

[head clansman]

hi sketch

IMHO it really depends on the size and depth of mortise , the way you choose to chop out your mortice's . What ever your making , as you start to size the timber it involves marking out no matter how many mortice's you have to do, they all need to be marked out accurately , which when your trained to do takes only minutes , once done which is the correct way of doing things and it is not a waste of time , seeing you have already set out all the mortice's again it;s MHO there's no need for jigs and routers which will not complete in most cases the mortise , depending on mortise depth .

even if your not trained, once you have leaned to sharpen your chisels to a reasonable standard it only take minutes to chop them out, again depending on size would depend if you choose to use a drill to remove most of the bulk , i have use this method all my 40 years as a tradesman .

obviously when i was working in the joiner shop at portland dockyard if i was given something to make that required a lot of largish mortice's i would use a mortise machine ( i know not ever body has that privilege ) I never ever would consider using a router , (why make jigs when it already marked out) It does not save time , i know a lot of people use this method today, but on most mortice's you still have to chop out the corners and revert back to hand tools , unless you round the corner edges of the tenons to suite the mortise which again means setting up machines (the modern way) a hand held router was never intended to be used to cut mortice's although it is used more and more in that way sadly . any way each to his own no-wt as strange as folk . hc

 

[MikeG.]

own no-wt as strange as folk . hc

.......and none so blind as those that won't see.

Just because you have only done it one way doesn't mean that is the only way, or that people who suggest another way are strange. Using a jig with a router would reduce the marking out to virtually nothing, despite what you say. I reckon I would win a race over one door, including making the jig........but I am certain that I would win over two doors........and, all the mortices would be identical.

Mike

 

[head clansman]

mike



I clearly said at the end of my post (each to his own ) in my previous post i also said (let the reader decide for himself) which I'm more than happy to do , so mike you do it your way(each to his own). hc

 

[ste_5150]

To get back on track - for the OP - you have 2 options.
1) Hand tools - benefits would be that you get that 'hand tool' feeling :wink:, you can really sense your pace through the project, and you get this job done without additional learning.
2) Make a jig and rout itm finishing with hand tools - benefits would be repeatability (should you want to), a new approach to the problem, some new learnings, and a slower setup but faster actual cut (bearing in mind that it sounds like you'll be learning the jig making side as well)

The above advocates of each technique are both completely correct, and both are totally valid. As craftsmen they defend their way of doing things, which is good (why offer advice on something you're not passionate about?), but don't let that influence you beyond what the job and your preference dictate.

If you want to do it the 'traditional' way, carry on what you're doing. If you want to experiment with new methods, or prefer the idea of power tools, get the router out!