Thread direction of a tote, why?

[Woodwork Journey Dean]

Here’s a question that may cause uproar but I’m honestly curious of the answer

I’m making a new tote for my old Record number 5 as it’s my favourite plane and it took an unfortunate tumble breaking the original along the grain.

As you’ll see, I’m completely ignoring probably hundreds of years of grain direction.
Why? Because I like to find stuff out mostly, I’m also not the brightest, but am I mental for thinking this direction makes sense?

Every plane with a broken handle will be broken along the (horizontal) grain because that’s its weakest point.
I guess the bolt that runs through the handle is supposed to minimise that, but it also stops any leaning forward which would put pressure on the bottom second where the horizontal grain is most beneficial.

With that in mind, why would the grain direction I’ve chosen be weaker than the normal choice that has clearly had a purpose for years and years.
My ape brain thinks it would be more resilient to drops.

TLR
Why is the grain horizontal in hand plane totes?

Thanks all, and I’m sorry for questioning tradition

 

[Adam W.]

You'll lose the hook at the top of the handle and the foot could easily break off. It's best to stick with convention sometimes.

 

[clogs]

why not use ply.....?......hahaha.....only joking......

 

[Bristol_Rob]

I think maybe what you have done is swap one weak spot for another.

I think because of the S shape of the handle it's not possible to be strong in every area.

But let's be honest the only time people need a new handle on a conventional handle with conventional grain direction is when they drop it or bang it.

My original no.4 I bought for site work over 40 years ago has never split, cracked or broke.
Some might says it's because my no.4 has plastic totes - I say it's because I've always taken care and looked after it

 

[Woodwork Journey Dean]

You'll lose the hook at the top of the handle and the foot could easily break off. It's best to stick with convention sometimes.

You see this is what I don’t understand. Not saying you’re wrong, but the hook gets very little aggravation and the through bolt stops the foot breaking surely?
Maybe not, but that’s why I’m asking the question

 

[TheUnicorn]

as per adam w's thinking, you are putting the weak point at the ankle, which would want to act like a hinge. The grain across the handle (standard design) looks marginally thicker, but even if it were not, you apply even pressure throughout the length of the handle so it can stand to be weaker at any given point

 

[Sideways]

A question of leverage. You'll need far more tension in the bolt to stop it leaning forward and snapping the foot. Plus, the hook is in a position vulnerable to knocks and is inevitably going to go.
Make it out of plastic.

 

[peter-harrison]

If you look at your blank with its line drawn on it for the bolt, there's no part of it that's reinforced by the bolt as the bolt is going through strong long grain. On the original, the weakest points are all reinforced by the bolt.

 

[raffo]

The stress of use is not the same as that of the impact of dropping the plane.

The horizontal grain direction offers the most strength based on how the handle is used.

Perhaps the bolt helps reinforce Rosewood handles, they may be weaker in that shape compared to other species of wood. They're there to attach the handle to the plane, not to reinforce it, in my opinion. Open toted planes, like wooden jacks, were made of Beechwood, inset and glued to the body. They wrre plenty strong and withstood rough use.

 

[Inspector]

Finish making it and give it a real life test by using it. Then you will know for sure. If it fails again at some point down the road you can remake it. Keep the original around as a pattern if you ever need it.

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The issue surely isn't the grain orientation so much as why a timber was chosen that is so easily split. I've seen dozens of broken rosewood handles buty I don't recall seeing one broken beech one.

 

[baldkev]

I bought beech replacements on ebay and didnt worry about it i prefer the lighter look than the plastic handles

 

[Droogs]

the traditional grain direction allows . the handle to use the best feature of the wood - its strength in compression of the fibres in relation to the vector of the force applied. When in compression wood is around 15 times stronger than concrete

 

[Woodwork Journey Dean]

Well I buggered it up.
Crying shame though, it was looking really good

Broke the foot of it in half, the ever so slightly misaligned the threaded insert and broke that too.

Live and learn though, the next one will be better

 

[TheUnicorn]

Live and learn though, the next one will be better

will the next one have traditional grain?

 

[Woodwork Journey Dean]

will the next one have traditional grain?

That depends on if I’m feeling like a cheeky scamp again or not

 

[IWW]

More or less what Droogs said. The traditional grain direction for totes (& saw handles) was chosen as the least bad way to cater for the compromises needed to use wood for the job. I've repaired & replaced dozens of plane totes in my time & often wondered if I could orient them better, but short of finding a piece of wood that has some very peculiar grain directions, I long since decided we are stuck with the 'traditional' orientation as the least worst way.

The weak point, and the site of the vast majority of fractures I've seen, is across the 'short grain' of the grip. This is normally countered by being held in compression by the stud, but if the stud becomes loose (or the plane dropped!) they can & will break, typically at the ankle or just above it, as happened to this old rosewood tote:


It also needed a horn graft, as you can see. Broken horns are by far the most common lesion I've encountered on plane totes (& saw handles).

By orienting the grain running in the direction you've chosen, I think you are swapping one set of risks for a higher set, as already pointed out. If the stud gets loose (and it frequently does) a break across the "foot" is a near certainty. The entire horn is also going to be a very flimsy affair and you'll need to be very careful with that.

Accidents do happen, unfortunately. I've knocked planes off the bench at least twice in the 60 odd years I've been mucking about with them. One landed on the corner of its toe & all it took was a little bit of file work to clean up the burr on the metal. The other, my very favouritest 5 1/2 I got from my dad landed smack on the tote & broke the tip off the horn (but the rest of the tote remained intact):

As you can see, with the curve of the horn, you end up with some short-grain towards the tip, which is why so many old totes are found broken off near the tip anyway. Orienting the grain the way you want to is going to make this vulnerability even worse.

However, I believe in the old adage of "suck it & see" . Make a new tote the way you think is better & who knows? It may last for the rest of your lifetime (if you give up this dropping habit ), but there's a fair chance you'll discover why they've been doing it the "wrong" way for the last few centuries. A lesson learnt through experience is far more valuable & memorable than simply being told.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[thetyreman]

I used this guide for one of my plane handles, turned out really nice made from sapele:

https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-5-and-up-plane-tote-c-06-e.pdf

 

[Inspector]

I used this guide for one of my plane handles, turned out really nice made from sapele:

https://assets.leevalley.com/Original/10090/56664-stanley-number-5-and-up-plane-tote-c-06-e.pdf

How did you find that pdf? I looked and don'r see where they put it. Have they got other totes too?

Pete

 

[thetyreman]

How did you find that pdf? I looked and don'r see where they put it. Have they got other totes too?

Pete

yes they have another one for no4 I think and below sizes, so there are two sizes available on the website, it came up in a search and I saved it in my bookmarks.