Thoughts on billing

[bertterbo]

I'd like peoples thoughts on this, both trade and customer.

You pay a plumbing company to fit a product. You don't specify the brand or model of the product, you just let them know that you want them to fit a product that provides the functionality you want, and let them choose an appropriate brand/model to suite based on your plumbing configuration.

Turns out, that after 2 hours work, the product isn't compatible without modifications, and requires 2 more hours work to adjust the original plumbing.

So now you're stuck with plumbing that now doesn't work unless the changes are made.


Who should absorb the cost for this extra two hours work? the customer or the company doing the work?

 

[Geoff_S]

Was there a written quote or an estimate?

 

[bertterbo]

Was there a written quote or an estimate?

Sadly not. Rookie mistake I know. It was a case of me phoning them up and asking for said product to be installed, and getting a rough idea of time to fit over the phone.

The scenario here though is that they only realised it wouldn't work after they had actually "completed" the job and went to start using the product.

So in my eyes, it's their mistake, not mine, and any good trades person would acknowledge that and not charge more to correct it.

But I appreciate that without a written quote it's a blurry one

 

[Bingy man]

It’s down to the honesty and the integrity and of course the experience of the tradesman . Recent example - while doing a job for a customer I enquired why she had a new bath in her garden ? Plumber is coming w/end to fit . At some point I needed the loo and of course I glanced at the bath . I cheekily asked how much he was charging to fit the bath ( £120) she tells me , I said he will struggle to fit it in one day - to which she replied- and he’s fitting a new basin …just to explain what I was looking at 1- the bath was trapped by a duct / stud wall that the basin was attached to . 2 there was very little access to ghe pipe work or the waste -3both bath and basin wastes were blocked / restricted . 2days later a call from the customer and all hell had broken out . Plumber didn’t turn up after multiple calls and messages and emails , so I went back to take a closer look and advise - told her the 1st row of tiles will be removed/ fall off // the boxing will have to be part removed for additional access and will have to be made good // old bath will have to be cut out ( point of no return ) // as the bath was 1700mm I’d need to cut into the wall again for access and manuverability //I could not garantee a exact tile match ( size and colour ) and the new 2piece bath panel will require an additional support frame - and finally it will under no circumstances be completed in 1 day . All explained to the customer before the job was started . The most important advice/information I gave her was there will be unknown factors that won’t present themselves until the old bath was exposed - condition of pipe work and fittings // condition of subfloor and joists // water damage etc . So estimated 4 days ( 1 extra day to cover the unknowns . Sorry for long post but as this happened a few days back I thought it was relevant to the op . And yes pics to follow ..

 

[Bingy man]

So no written quote just an honest appraisel of the situation . Offered to fit a smaller bath but even that would req additional work and making good . The job took 3 days inc tiling and grouting , had to remove the shower panel for access and both wastes were replaced at difficulty back to the stack . The final photos were via the cust as I forgot to take them and she used a weird filter .. the cust / tradesperson is imho worth far more than a written contract but the contract maybe reqd if the invoice is disputed ..

 

[Bingy man]

Ignore the hedge trimmer lol

 

[Bingy man]

Note the rubbish left by the previous installer ( checkatrade)

 

[Bingy man]

And the finished job with soft furnishings supplied by the customer ( now happy again) quite easy to say the original plumber had a word with a mate at the pub and probably showed him a few pics and then that he’d quoted £120 to fit the bath and basin/ vanity unit .. I’m just glad that I’m not a proffesional business or company .

 

[RogerS]

Sadly not. Rookie mistake I know. It was a case of me phoning them up and asking for said product to be installed, and getting a rough idea of time to fit over the phone.

The scenario here though is that they only realised it wouldn't work after they had actually "completed" the job and went to start using the product.

So in my eyes, it's their mistake, not mine, and any good trades person would acknowledge that and not charge more to correct it.

But I appreciate that without a written quote it's a blurry one

I'm confused.

In your first post, you seemed tomimply that you did not specify any particular product but in your second post, you seemed to imply that you did ?

 

[Bingy man]

It would also help to know what product you are referring to as it sounds a little amateurish to install an appliance / product and then once installed discover it doesn’t work. . Unless it’s as I’ve mentioned in my previous post it’s due to unforeseen problems - I’ve discussed many a job over the phone but will not give a quote or estimate until I’ve seen the job in all its glory . Its a bit like a blind date as you never know what your getting until you meet face to face

 

[Agent_zed]

So no written quote just an honest appraisel of the situation . Offered to fit a smaller bath but even that would req additional work and making good . The job took 3 days inc tiling and grouting , had to remove the shower panel for access and both wastes were replaced at difficulty back to the stack . The final photos were via the cust as I forgot to take them and she used a weird filter .. the cust / tradesperson is imho worth far more than a written contract but the contract maybe reqd if the invoice is disputed ..

was it worse looking in real life as it looks like they spent a lot of time, money and effort to take out a white bath to replace it with a slightly different white bath.

 

[Bingy man]

was it worse looking in real life as it looks like they spent a lot of time, money and effort to take out a white bath to replace it with a slightly different white bath.

Bath had a hairline crack that was spreading + there was movement as there was no bath panel frame -it was approx 15 years old . Previous leaks from the hairline crack + the poor tiling and seal around the bath had brought part of living room ceiling down . So it was a no brainier .

 

[HOJ]

With all the variables you had in play with getting a "rough" price, to fit an unspecified product, and that they turned up in good faith to fit what you wanted, along with no prior knowledge of your particular plumbing system, you really need to have this conversation with them, not a forum.

 

[niall Y]

As customers, we all want to know exactly what things will cost before we commit. But with building work this isn't always possible. There are always the unknown, unknowns - to quote a certain "Mr Rumsfeld."

Many misunderstandings arise over the difference between a quote and an estimate. With the one you can be held to a price, with the other it is simply is an estimate, a figure that can easily expand on contact with reality. If a tradesman genuinely has to buy extra materials and take extra time to carry out work, then this is what the job actually costs to do.

As a tradesman you often encounter things that you didn't expect. One job I was running for a customer, where I was acting as the site-agent, I was asked to install a set of electrical sockets along an outside wall, only to discover - when it rained - that water poured out of the sockets. We later found out that the wall had been tanked, to stop water coming in from a neighbours garden. Luckily, in that particular instance, the customer was very understanding.

One thing I did learn from that job, was that there was something that my colleagues and I later came to refer to as "the cottage effect" which directly relates to the unknown , unknowns. With the best will in the world there is no way you can predict every eventuality, but it pays for the customer and tradesman to communicate at all stages, just so there are no surprises and no ill will, when the invoice is presented at the end of the job.

 

[Graham Brazier]

Hi OP
Can I ask what the product was and what function you wanted it to do

 

[bertterbo]

With all the variables you had in play with getting a "rough" price, to fit an unspecified product, and that they turned up in good faith to fit what you wanted, along with no prior knowledge of your particular plumbing system, you really need to have this conversation with them, not a forum.

"You pay a plumbing company to fit a product. You don't specify the brand or model of the product, you just let them know that you want them to fit a product that provides the functionality you want, and let them choose an appropriate brand/model to suite based on your plumbing configuration."

They chose the product having looked my setup.

 

[Daniel2]

Any chance of telling us what the "product" in question is ?

 

[HOJ]

They chose the product having looked my setup.

Misunderstood, I read that they hadn't, changes the dynamic somewhat, but my answer remains the same:

you really need to have this conversation with them, not a forum.

 

[bertterbo]

Misunderstood, I read that they hadn't, changes the dynamic somewhat, but my answer remains the same:

I feel you're missing the point of the question.

...I am asking what peoples (both trade and customers) would expect in this scenario. I of course will be discussing it with them, but before I do that, I wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were, and if perhaps I am being unreasonable.

 

[bertterbo]

In regards to people asking about the product .. I generalised the scenario as I can't mention the product without outing the name of the company, which I don't want to do.

If I haven't given enough information for people to give a good answer, that's fair enough, but I don't think it really matters what the product is.

- I asked for something to be installed
- They chose the exact item to be installed having looked at my setup
- The item they chose turns out to be incompatible without extra labour