The Value of tools

[Doug B]

Vintage tools do tend to actually be better tools than their modern counterparts, which doesn't hurt any!

I think this depends on what you are judging the vintage tools against, Skelton saws Richard mentions in his original post are a prime example, I’d say Shane’s saws are easily as comparable to any older top notch saws.
I agree there is a lot of new garbage out there when it comes to tools but there are plenty of quality manufacturers who are producing top notch merchandise, personally I think we’ve hit a real purple patch for quality new tools over the last few years, certainly when I think back to what was available 40 years ago when I first started putting a tool kit together.

 

[Hornbeam]

I am far more attached to my hand tools than any of my machinery or portable power tools. My tools are a mix of second hand and new and generally the more work I have put into fettling/repairing etc the more attached i am. When buying hand tools I am generally buying lifetime tools but also try and take a balance of user quality vs cost. While veritas or Lie Nielson tools are very nice I cant justify the price tag over a well prepared and set up second hand Record but I'm sure others take a different view. If we were all the same it would be a bit boring
ian

 

[Farm Labourer]

This is a very thought provoking and emotive topic. Last autumn, I drove a 200 mile round trip to collect a tool I'd bought on Gumtree from a lady whose late husband had been a cabinet-maker.

When I entered the house, I had a strange feeling - I was offered a cup of tea and as we walked down the hall and into the kitchen, I recognised the subjects of a couple of paintings. Over tea we chatted and it quickly emerged that not only did we have a common interest in the subject of the paintings but that we had several mutual friends in common. It then transpired that I'd met the deceased many years before but had no idea that he'd retrained as a cabinet maker - he and his work-partner had been my idols as a younger man in a field totally unrelated to wood-work.

I left with the Radial Arm Saw and boxes of other tools that she wanted to part with. The RAS sees use on a dail basis and the Bessey clamps I bought are frequently in use and I can't say that I think of him every time I switch on the saw or adjust a clamp. However, every time I choose to use one of his Pfeill chisels, his Stanley #3 or favour his medium sized mallet over my larger home-made one or my smaller bought one, I do think of RH and his lovely widow.

Are the tools worth more to me because of the unexpected connection? No probably not, but they do mean more to me - knowing that one of my heroes has handled and sharpened them. There was a lathe that she wanted to sell. I didn't buy it as I've never turned anything in my life but after a couple of weeks, I felt I wanted to have it in my workshop just in case the desire to turn ever errupted. I contacted W (by now we'd become friends on Social Media) and asked if it was still available - I was so dissapointed to hear that it had been sold and shipped to E Europe. I could buy a new one but it wouldn't be the same and I can almost guarantee that the chap somewhere near the Russian Federation would not have a clue about the former owner but would have little interest either. Whenever I finish something I'm proud of, I always send W, the widow a photo and tell her which tools of her late husband's I've used.

And just to finish this soliloquy, as I sit with a glass of Ghost Ship, avoiding my wife's friends nattering away in a different room; I had been covetting a friend's Ashley Isles 7/16" skew chisels for months but could not find any in stock anywhere. I contacted Ashley Isles to be told that they had no stock but were planning on making some in 2020. A day later I saw a pair on an auction site and placed a low bid. Those chisels which appeared unused now sit in my chisel box and I bloody love them - something that I so badly wanted for ages at 60% of the price of new ones and no wait!

 

[dazzer]

I’ve a similar experience to Rich as when I was an apprentice I would buy tools from my wages and slowly built up a working set. One tool I bought was a Record 311 it was £33 and was a major part of one weeks wage, I’ve always loved using it and it’s still a great plane and my favorite tool that I have. Since those early days (35 years ago) I’ve bought lots of hand and power tools, some I needed others I didn’t but I like to try things out such as Japanese chisels, saws and water stones. I think especially my hand tools have been a major part of building my knowledge and skill level over the years and using them always is kind of a therapeutic as it’s where I’m happiest

 

[ED65]

Vintage tools do tend to actually be better tools than their modern counterparts, which doesn't hurt any!

I think this depends on what you are judging the vintage tools against...

Oh yes, definitely! I did say tend as I meant like-for-like: mass-market tools of old compared to their direct equivalents today (with all that this unfortunately implies these days).

Not fair to compare older Stanleys to L-Ns for example, although they can do equivalent work despite their quality differences the latter is specifically made to be a high-end tool where the first was churned out. To the high standards of the day, the rosewood handles are perhaps the best example, but still churned out.

Looking at it from the other side there almost isn't a historical equivalent to the very high end modern tools; that sector of the market didn't exist for a very long time. Until some point in the 19th century?

 

[dannyr]

Show us your Marples Ultimatum brace, silver and ivory measuring/layout tools, ebony handled carvers, Norris planes from the C19th, early C20th. All expensive users.
But probably used by established craftsmen with the years behind them to have accumulated some (minor) wealth.
Not amateurs like some of us.
Then a level higher the exhibition and presentation tools - not 'users'

 

[AndyT]

Woodturning is another field where there certainly were plenty of high end tools, as it was a popular pastime amongst royalty and the aristocracy who had the social and economic freedom to spend days making exotic nicknacks. Some of the seventeenth century books listed in this thread woodturning-history-t115265.html show the sort of thing I mean. Later on, there were the hugely elaborate and expensive lathes from the likes of Holtzapffel.

Unaffordable to most of us even now.

 

[AES]

Earlier on Andy T, you wrote, QUOTE: If you look along a rack of new tools in a shop, all identical, you won't want any one of them more than all the others. But a tool that you've owned and used for years, that's personal and irreplaceable. If you know who owned it before you, that's an even stronger connection. UNQUOTE:

Yes Sir, thank you very much, that's EXACTLY what I was trying to say.

Nothing high-end, but yonks ago I bought a ratchet screwdriver from Woolworths (of all places) and when it disappeared many years later in a house move I really missed it. Although I replaced with a much better quality tool, to me it just was NOT "as good" somehow.

And to your 2nd sentence, again, spot on Sir. My dad's tools are literally priceless to me.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A Holtzappfel rose engine when new apparently cost the same as a terrace of eight house, to put it in perspective.
I don't know who will inherit my tools - if you saw my son with a tool - any tool - in his hand the first thing any practical person would think is put that down, it doesn't belong to you and you'll damage something with it.

 

[Lons]

A Holtzappfel rose engine when new apparently cost the same as a terrace of eight house, to put it in perspective.
I don't know who will inherit my tools - if you saw my son with a tool - any tool - in his hand the first thing any practical person would think is put that down, it doesn't belong to you and you'll damage something with it.

:lol: :lol:
My son has at least now become more practical having his own house and a wife who nags him a bit but I seriously doubt he'll cherish or use many of my precious tools. In fact it bothers me so much I've decided I'm not going to die! :lol:

 

[Trevanion]

I mentioned on another thread that when I was an apprentice joiner a few years ago I was earning £3.50/ph, I spent the better part of 20 weeks wages on an engineering lathe. What I bought was a CVA MK1A Toolroom Lathe in good condition that had been converted to run on a single-phase supply. Now you might be asking why on earth would a joinery apprentice spend that much on a metalworking machine especially so early on in the career because that seemed to be everyone else's question at the time! To tell you the truth, I just fancied one, there was no real rhyme nor reason for the purchase other than that! :lol:

It's worked out to be easily the best investment I've ever made just by the sheer amount of holes it's got me and a few others out of, cylindrical parts are everywhere which either get lost, broken or need upgrading and this machine is excellent at doing that. If it hadn't got this machine I would definitely not have been able to restore my Multico thicknesser to the same standard as I simply would not have been able to repair the damage to the powerfeed without it. I've even done a couple of jobs for a couple of forum members using it, one of those parts I made is now on a machine in France! :shock:

I'm in my earlyish twenties now, the way I look at it is provided I look after the machine and keep it running sweet it will continually get me and everyone else out of holes well until I'm long gone. Can you really put a price on that?

 

[AES]

"In fact it bothers me so much I've decided I'm not going to die!"

Now THAT is the best solution I've heard so far. Care to share your secret?