the saga continues, drawer 2

[engineer one]

ok so having made the first one, it was time to move along.

have used the cheap wood again, only because i had it lying around
you know waste not want not :lol:

slightly less deep so i put three pins and two tails.

the first couple of pictures show the tools i used.
LN dovetail saw, veritas marking gauges, and of course my chisels and wacker from the dutch :roll:

the others show each corner. still not perfect, but getting better.

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so my method this time. cut all pieces slightly over length, about 2mm.
mark width plus overlap so 15mm gauge marks all round.
use the veritas dovetail layout guide, and remember which way round the slope goes :? fortunately there was enought room left :lol:

thicken lines with pencil, and use the saddle square for the straight lines.

having checked philly's idea, i in fact held the wood upright and cut with the blade at an angle. for me somewhat easier.
chop out waste with a chisel. small chips from both sides. still not sure of the best way to do the bottom.

then layout the tails from the pins, using a pencil, and cut just inside line.
same deal with removing waste. saw down on outside, and then chisel inner ones. lines are getting straighter, and more accurate.

so as you can see i did quite well 50 % good tight fit, 50% less so :roll:

so now comes the really tricky part which i am still working on.

gluing up and keeping the sides both square, parallel and flat. by that i mean ensuring that the four sided box does not rock, and the diagonals are ok. still working on getting the diagonal measurement right, but have some other veritas bar clamps, so will check those out.

i use bessey clamps to hold it whilst the titebond hardens, but i wonder whether it is a good idea to have clamp blocks which have the dovetails cut out to give greater pressure and more accuracy.

so, final stage is to fill the gaps, and clean up, then i'll put the bottom on, and fix it to the runners.

what have i learnt this time.

using the LN dovetail saw freehand after using the layout blocks, seems quicker and more simple.

i need to improve my sawing technique for the level lines, and figure out the best way to ensure a neat square edge at the bottom of the cut outs.
i have used the marking knife to ensure that the lines are deep enough,
and the wheel marking gauge makes it easier to not follow the grain direction. :twisted:

didn't mean to plug veritas products quite so much, but i bought them back in the day when i was still building up my toolbox, and felt the need for
accurate marking tools, but for those starting out and without training i think they are quite valuable.

anyway hope you think i am progressing
:roll:

paul :wink:
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[MooreToolsPlease]

i use bessey clamps to hold it whilst the titebond hardens, but i wonder whether it is a good idea to have clamp blocks which have the dovetails cut out to give greater pressure and more accuracy.

I remember reading a Christian Becksvoort article in fine wood working a while ago. When he was an apprentice he was told to make glue blocks with the appropriate material taken out so as not to interfere with the dove tails.
But now he uses glue blocks of a softer material than the one being used.
There should be enough compression in the softer wood to give you the greater pressure

Matt

 

[engineer one]

thanks but a bit difficult to get much softer than the whitewood i used :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

OK heres the guarantee of clean shoulder lines on dovetails (and other shoulder lines for other joints)

Make this jig. (I originally saw this on the australian forum, David Cohen)

The shoulder piece across the jig really needs to be something like oak or other hardwood.

Put the dovetail shoulder to the jig like this and fasten all wing bolts down so that each piece has exactly the same datum for each piece of timber.

When the timbner has been inserted to the shoulder line and wing nuts tightened up use the chisel at the waste shoulder line like this.

Thats one of your joint problems solved for life. You wont need a woodrat or other.

 

[RogerM]

Thanks for that DW. Elegantly simple!

 

[woodbloke]

DW's jig is an elegant way of ensuring that the chisel picks up the shoulder line and remains vertical, however the line must be struck in the first place for the shoulder to be truly accurate and for that you need one of these:

and an accurate square if you use a knife - Rob

 

[engineer one]

actually do use some of those tools.

however does everyone who does hand cut items measure the gaps so that a single chisel goes in or are they wider than that??

thanks again for the comments and the jig.

paul :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

Paul, the way I learned to mark out dovetails was to base the measurements around the size of the actual chisel you'll be using. So in my one (during the course) was based on a 6mm chisel, this ensured the dovetails were relatively even.

 

[engineer one]

byron, that's fine when all your parts are the same size, but it seems that often the pins are very narrow, and the tails quite wide, so it is this that intregues me. :?

paul :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

To woodbloke.

The black part of the jig ensures the shoulder line is the same on each piece because the timber comes up to that datum, IMHO this modern way is more accurate but old ways can be best :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

Looks to me that if you place the timber end on between the black part and the upright guide, the black piece slides up and sets the datum for you, without need for a striking knife/cutting gauge.

But I still prefer to strike the lines, and cut to them first. Then I go in at an angle to remove a triangular trench at each point.
Best I can describe it!

When I make the datum cut, I hold the chisel as I would a pencil, low down on the metal, and use a small mallet that I keep just for dovetailing..
But I am old fashioned. (hammer)

That looks a neat way of making a Woodrat redundant for dovetails, other than for speedy batch-cutting!

John

 

[Benchwayze]

so my method this time. cut all pieces slightly over length, about 2mm.

With a straght-grained hardwood, you could leave all pins and tails slightly longer and bevel the edges for a decorative effect I suppose.

or am I being too eccentric?

John

 

[engineer one]

nice one john, but first i must get the dovetails right, then i can think about being really pretty.

like many people i started on my tool collection drawers since that allows me to release more manufacturing space. however unlike most i decided to get down and dirty first, then give myself a reason to improve the situation later. this is the first time i have had anything resembling a workshop, all my previous work, two of which i will post a couple of pictures of later in the week, has been made on site :roll:

so it is a relief to be able to hold things properly, and use hand tools again.

where i think i have been going wrong with the end trim is that i have been approaching the wood from the side, and maybe i need to realign my working practices so i am chiselling down from the front.

also however, i will seek to make the pins a chisel width apart more nearly rather than having to use two chisel strokes. :?

paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

To woodbloke.

The black part of the jig ensures the shoulder line is the same on each piece because the timber comes up to that datum, IMHO this modern way is more accurate but old ways can be best :wink:

.....which also assumes that the black bit and the 'chisel resting bit' are dead parallel and of course your timber needs to be shot dead square as well. Easier I think to strike a square knife line and then use the chisel support cramped to the knife line to ensure that the chisel is square to the wood surface. This is how Robert Ingham pares d/t shoulder lines but he's developed a jig where the chisel is horizontal rather than vertical and the whole thing can be held in a vice - Rob

 

[devonwoody]

Yes, I agree I use a marked shoulder line then drop the chisel bar down on that line and finally bring the black piece onto the timber and check that it is square and that the same overhang is availble to each timber that goes in the jig which was its purpose for this piece.

Just my system but no doubt we all develop our own quirks.