The price some people charge - a personal rant!

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No Jacob, just agreeing with another post. I don't think people's products should be ridiculed, whether breadboards or Chinese imports. Discussed sensibly as to the reasons why a thing is the way it is. Should this be the last time I support window frame makers?

Mike.
 
totally discourtious (spelling?) to stick a URL up and slag the products/ company off. Did the Op invite the company to comment on this thread when this thread was posted? meanwhile this thread will rumble on and be indexed for all to see whenever they google said company....

theres better ways of pointing people in the direction of a company website than typing their exact web address.
 
Not sure why you think he should have to invite the company to comment, he really is allowed an opinion on a company and how it's employees behaved and doesn't need permission to do it.

From what I could gather from the initial post, the company sell hand made cutting boards that are, excuse the pun, a cut above your ordinary cutting board, the website looks very slick but the company employee couldn't be bothered or didn't know what he was actually selling, which for me kills the whole deal because they're not as exacting as they make themselves out to be, in the face of some small adversity, their façade crumbles.

If the person that is supposed to be selling your product, can't actually be bothered to sell the product, perhaps that explains why they don't necessarily sell very many and the price is reflective of his lack of effort?

I have worked in retail myself, on the front line, I know how difficult customers can be but they really did pay my wages, the bottom line was that if we didn't sell enough of our products then the business would end up going under.

So it's the little things, like knowing your product lines that help go a long way, he had less than 20 products to remember by the looks of it, that's not very many, especially as they all do the same thing, perhaps he really just didn't care enough about the products? Lastly, a difficult customer isn't a difficult customer, it's just one you haven't won round yet, it's just all about your attitude.
 
I think that, reading between the lines, the seller of the boards in the OP probably did know which board was made from which wood, only he made a flippant remark to a customer who was possibly making an *** of himself. The customer may think they are always correct, and they may be the source of the income that keeps a business in business, but that doesn't entitle them to be rude or impolite.
Unfortunately, we only have one side of the conversation here, and for me it doesn't paint the OP in a very flattering light.
Looking at their website, the board company do seem to waffle on a bit and attempt to exploit potential customers desire for individually crafted products, however one may define handmade (another discussion in itself). In the absence of looking at one of their products in the flesh, their prices didn't seem too bad, and having made boards myself of considerably greater complexity, I can understand the work involved.
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think that charging £50-100 for a wooden board is something that needs ranting against on a public forum. Indeed, anything that increases the perceived value within the public mindset of hand crafted items can only be a good thing for us. If you don't agree with the price, don't buy it, or make similar and sell for less.

Just my tuppenceworth at silly-o'clock in the morning courtesy of a sneezing fit and this damnably muggy weather.
Adam
 
Kalimna":2qlb4pur said:
......the board company do seem to waffle on a bit and attempt to exploit potential customers desire for individually crafted products,
It's called "marketing" - everybody has to do it if they want to sell something and if they do it well they get more money for the same product as their competitors
..... I don't think that charging £50-100 for a wooden board is something that needs ranting against on a public forum. ......
I thought ranting was what forums were for!
The price of bread has set off revolutions in the past ("let them eat cake" etc) but the price of breadboards never would ("let them use plates"?)
 
As the assumptions are flying... I'll assume there are some here who took the OP's post as being somewhat, personal - towards them and their trade/pricing. So they've stuck the boot him on him.

I'll assume most everyone has thought the same thing about a product at some point, he just posted his thoughts/opinion. No puppies were killed/maimed. Its a breadboard ffs.

Personally. I think the price sucks too. The whole hand-crafted and rubbed in Olive-oil - sweat from the craftsmen brow... (I just added that bit) has me gagging from a marketing point-of-view.

Saying that. I'll stump-up (and have) the funds for an Auriou/Liogier rasp because I don't feel I'm being exploited on such a product. Thats my perception and my opinion. And, its ok to agree to disagree.
 
Matt@":fqq5aze7 said:
totally discourtious (spelling?) to stick a URL up and slag the products/ company off. Did the Op invite the company to comment on this thread when this thread was posted? meanwhile this thread will rumble on and be indexed for all to see whenever they google said company....

theres better ways of pointing people in the direction of a company website than typing their exact web address.
Devil's Advocate:

They're being talked about, sure. They may also make sales from such a thread because someone noticed it - I'd never heard of them. People may disagree about pricing,.....but others won't be bothered and cough-up their asking price.

its not all negative. Unless you only look at it in a negative way.


Edit - FTR. I purchased a Clifton Plane after a similar thread was posted on here.
 
Reggie":3a9drmrq said:
Not sure why you think he should have to invite the company to comment, he really is allowed an opinion on a company and how it's employees behaved and doesn't need permission to do it.

From what I could gather from the initial post, the company sell hand made cutting boards that are, excuse the pun, a cut above your ordinary cutting board, the website looks very slick but the company employee couldn't be bothered or didn't know what he was actually selling, which for me kills the whole deal because they're not as exacting as they make themselves out to be, in the face of some small adversity, their façade crumbles.

If the person that is supposed to be selling your product, can't actually be bothered to sell the product, perhaps that explains why they don't necessarily sell very many and the price is reflective of his lack of effort?

I have worked in retail myself, on the front line, I know how difficult customers can be but they really did pay my wages, the bottom line was that if we didn't sell enough of our products then the business would end up going under.

So it's the little things, like knowing your product lines that help go a long way, he had less than 20 products to remember by the looks of it, that's not very many, especially as they all do the same thing, perhaps he really just didn't care enough about the products? Lastly, a difficult customer isn't a difficult customer, it's just one you haven't won round yet, it's just all about your attitude.

I'd call that reply a home run Reggie :) take a bow. Having been a retail manager for many years - and in the ranks before that, I can tell you not really knowing what's in front of you considering all he had to do was identify the wood and the possible variety of finishes that may have been used (and if they don't know they should ask the "craftsmen" to make sure they indeed comply with food safe regulations) made both him and the people he represented look pretty poor IMHO. Rather than a snarky "look at the sticker on the back bud" remark, the seller should have taken the opportunity to extol the virtues of the boards knowing full well that at the prices marked, in these times, only an "I saw you coming" customer would stump the cash on the spot.

I don't necessarily think the prices were over the top (IF they were handcrafted - with hand planes, not machine crafted), but lets face it - there aren't many men whom, upon bringing that home to the missus and being asked why you had spent £70 on a breadboard, would be able to get away with "I thought it looked nice", without some why's and wherefore's the seller should have extolled as backup. (and even then I'd stay at arms length).

(and Reggie's right there are a few chinese bashing threads here too and I'll bet some of those posts are generalizations rather than actual 1st person experience).

"Handcrafted" is overly used nowadays, when in a lot of cases the only difference between handcrafted and factory crafted is the size of the machines and space you are standing in. If you look in my sig you'll see the fireplace I made. I charged her only £250 for it and that included the whole installation - cutting and setting 2 very large slate floor tiles for a hearth, tiling the surround and making an internal section to cover up the nasty fireplace hole she had, which some ***** had put breeze blocks in.

I spent a ridiculous amount of time doing the shaping of the wood as I only had a stupid block plane to do it with, I didn't get anywhere near a reasonable monetary price vs time spent ratio. Should I have charged her that much more because of a lack of tools on my part? I charged her based on what she might have been able to buy for the same sort of money even though the whole thing was utterly bespoke and designed for her living room. (I did get a ton of learning from it though so I'm not bitter about it despite how it may look)

And that for me is the sort of basis the OP's rant was based on.
 
"Handcrafted" is overly used nowadays, when in a lot of cases the only difference between handcrafted and factory crafted is the size of the machines and space you are standing in.

"Hand made" and "hand crafted" are now so misused they've become meaningless. The only thing on the web site that shows anything hand crafted is the pic of someone using a drawknife with the boad in a vice. Since the main selling point of the product is they are hand crafted (hand sawn, hand sanded), you might've thought they would show some of the supposed hand work. I suspect hand sawn means hand fed into a bandsaw, hand sanded means board hand held against sanding machine etc. It's like when place of manufacture is not mentioned, you know it's been made in a lower cost country.

It's all that marketing and "story" that goes with a lot of luxury products that I find off putting.
 
Sgain Dubh, Roger, Marcros - I considered sending you boys a reasoned response, but I really couldn't be bothered.

What I will say though is if my comments caused you all offence then I am truly sorry.

I hope you all make a pile of money from your hand crafted products.

Good luck

David
 
Glynne":3bflh23q said:
As well as entry to the Gardeners World Exhibition (yes I know I spoil her), you gain free entry to the BBC Good Food show which is interesting despite most things being over-priced.
However I came across this one exhibitor who I thought was "having a laugh" and taking advantage of being at a well known show.
Oh no - Have a look at the prices!
http://www.naturallycreated.co.uk

Bear in mind these are essentially flat boards with perhaps the edges rounded (obviously by their craftsmen!). I've no doubt many of you will have scrapped bigger lumps of wood.
Nothing special about the finish - the guy thought it might be Osmo oil but wasn't sure.

I did feel a bit guilty at the time as I might just have been described as a bit of a nuisance (chuffing big one actually) - but the guy did condescendingly suggest if I wanted to know what the wood was, there was a label on the back. I didn't actually swear and passers-by were impressed by the speed my wife fog-marched me away, but the prices are an insult to proper crafttsmen.

I know this exhibitor through another craft fair at which I was attending and I make the following brief comments:

The stall fees that form the basis of the pricing policy at any of these shows are exorbitant and are outside the control of the exhibitor. I paid £250 a day for a three metre stand at a fair that this exhibitor was recently at. The stall fees at the Good Food Show will be much higher.
That exhibitor is not a craftsman and the names on the backs of the woods were on occasions wrong, notably describing a piece of spalted chestnut as sycamore!
A fellow exhibitor, a proclaimed member of the RPT was charging £800 for a 14 inch yew bowl at an exhibition I was at recently, overcharging??
If its overpriced only suckers will pay for it. Sometimes the value to one person is not the cost but the pleasure it brings them.

Some of this may already have been said and as repetition is a pet hatred on mine I apologise but I have a poor connection in the middle of Spain and cant read all the posts!
 
Dear Glynne,

Why am I not surprised you hid your true identity, why would you make a total prat of yourself in a forum and give your real name ? At every show there is always at least one and I suspect at the BBC Good Food Show you may well have been nominated perhaps you should thank your wife for saving your face.

As it happens I know a bit about the processes this type of product goes through and if you were half as smart as you think you are you might know as well.

'Flat bits of Wood !' Let me see now, those flat bits of wood would have started life as sawn timber, unlike many boards on the market that are only air dried timber these are kiln dried for a few weeks, then transported to a workshop where the planks would be sized, planed and cut into board shapes. Sanded to a reasonable finish before being hand finished and coated with a a food safe coating before a final finish and a second coating.

What type of timber we talking about here? British hardwoods, some scarce, or perhaps, Walnut, Elm, Pippy Oak or Burr woods, all becoming extremely sought after and therefore sell at premium prices at the mill.

Do you know how many wood turners, tree surgeons, hobbyists and like attend these shows ? All think they know better all asking questions as to how do you do this or that... Why are you surprised that a question you ask is vaguely parried away perhaps to protect a protected process.

I have seen the boards you are so quick to criticise and I know the joke behind their labels, not only does it tell you what kind of wood the board is may from but it even tells you where the tree grew. A nice touch, in my opinion, because it defines that all their timber comes from guaranteed sustainable sources... The joke ? They learned the trick from a butcher with a stand close to theirs who knew the names of all the pigs in his sausages !

As far as price is concerned, consider this, as well as everything above how about allowing for the cost of attending such shows as the BBC Good Food Show and many others dotted around the country. Add to that travel, accommodation and food all of which have to be taken into account when running a business, something else it appears you know very little about.

So please... the next time you want air your ignorance and bad mouth a decent company at least have the guts to do so under your real name !
 
merlinfraser":150nbtfh said:
Dear Glynne,

Why am I not surprised you hid your true identity, why would you make a total prat of yourself in a forum and give your real name ? At every show there is always at least one and I suspect at the BBC Good Food Show you may well have been nominated perhaps you should thank your wife for saving your face.

As it happens I know a bit about the processes this type of product goes through and if you were half as smart as you think you are you might know as well.

'Flat bits of Wood !' Let me see now, those flat bits of wood would have started life as sawn timber, unlike many boards on the market that are only air dried timber these are kiln dried for a few weeks, then transported to a workshop where the planks would be sized, planed and cut into board shapes. Sanded to a reasonable finish before being hand finished and coated with a a food safe coating before a final finish and a second coating.

What type of timber we talking about here? British hardwoods, some scarce, or perhaps, Walnut, Elm, Pippy Oak or Burr woods, all becoming extremely sought after and therefore sell at premium prices at the mill.

Do you know how many wood turners, tree surgeons, hobbyists and like attend these shows ? All think they know better all asking questions as to how do you do this or that... Why are you surprised that a question you ask is vaguely parried away perhaps to protect a protected process.

I have seen the boards you are so quick to criticise and I know the joke behind their labels, not only does it tell you what kind of wood the board is may from but it even tells you where the tree grew. A nice touch, in my opinion, because it defines that all their timber comes from guaranteed sustainable sources... The joke ? They learned the trick from a butcher with a stand close to theirs who knew the names of all the pigs in his sausages !

As far as price is concerned, consider this, as well as everything above how about allowing for the cost of attending such shows as the BBC Good Food Show and many others dotted around the country. Add to that travel, accommodation and food all of which have to be taken into account when running a business, something else it appears you know very little about.

So please... the next time you want air your ignorance and bad mouth a decent company at least have the guts to do so under your real name !
:-({|= :-({|= :-({|=
 
So please... the next time you want air your ignorance and bad mouth a decent company at least have the guts to do so under your real name !

That made me laugh, thank you MERLIN
 
Custard,

Sorry I think all you get for 99p is an email / phone call.
 
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