The joys of electric car ownership!

[Agent_zed]

There are a number of solutions to this debate that require looking back. I can never understand why car companies do not embrace lightness in the manufacture of their cars as we once did, While electric cars in principal are a good idea I cannot get on board with carrying all that weight of battery around, as mentioned earlier in this thread, driving a 2 tonne car to transport a 90kg human doesn't compute. Even performance vehicles and off roaders would benefit from a reduction in weight. Caught the below video on YouTube the other day. Looking at the car its hard to believe this may represent the future of motoring. 360kg in weight, seating for 2, 200l of luggage space and £35,000, you might need to invest in a new rain coat though.

Yes! Although designs like the one on the video aren't the best for aerodynamics and therefore fuel economy/energy useage. I have a Caterham 7 copy I built many years ago that weighs around 750kg which one day I'll either convert to electric or put in a lighter modern engine like a 1l eco boost ford (that would save ~100kg)

The problem is open wheel cars with flat windscreens are the aerodynamic equivelent of a brick. Caterhams have a drag co-efficient of about 0.7 which is pretty bad (1 being the worst). Compare that to even a 1980's ford sierra which is about 0.35, with modern cars being even better than that.

Interestingly from what I've read the sierra wasn't well received at the time as people didn't like change from their traditional boxy cars.

Low weight low drag is where it's at!

Law makers need to keep up though as currently it is law that you have to have wing mirrors (well one at least) but from what I have read https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016821004129 these increase drag by 3-6%. If you replace these with cameras you could make cars even more efficient. Coupled with low weight and the skinny wheels like on that car on the video you will increase efficiency greatly with virtually no change to driving habits.

 

[MikeJhn]

Quote from Colin Chapman "build in lightness"

For those who don't he was the founder of Lotus cars.

 

[stuart little]

Yes! Although designs like the one on the video aren't the best for aerodynamics and therefore fuel economy/energy useage. I have a Caterham 7 copy I built many years ago that weighs around 750kg which one day I'll either convert to electric or put in a lighter modern engine like a 1l eco boost ford (that would save ~100kg)

The problem is open wheel cars with flat windscreens are the aerodynamic equivelent of a brick. Caterhams have a drag co-efficient of about 0.7 which is pretty bad (1 being the worst). Compare that to even a 1980's ford sierra which is about 0.35, with modern cars being even better than that.

Interestingly from what I've read the sierra wasn't well received at the time as people didn't like change from their traditional boxy cars.

Low weight low drag is where it's at!

Law makers need to keep up though as currently it is law that you have to have wing mirrors (well one at least) but from what I have read https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016821004129 these increase drag by 3-6%. If you replace these with cameras you could make cars even more efficient. Coupled with low weight and the skinny wheels like on that car on the video you will increase efficiency greatly with virtually no change to driving habits.

A recent episode of 'How to build a Car' on 'Yesterday Ch.', featured Caterham. They are working on designs for EL's.

 

[Ozi]

A bit off topic but for anybody interested in hydrogen combustion although this is talking about furnace combustion the principles transfer to combustion in an engine

https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/hydrogen-the-burning-question/

 

[MikeJhn]

Caterham project V:

 

[clogs]

Mr J. Brown
my point about the down rated vac cleaners was, those who know everything have just taken our choice away.......

similary if u want a machine *for private use* thats not avail by the elf n safety mob just go buy it from some other nearby country.....

sold some items via FBM......
The chap came to collect them in a brand new elec pick up the size of a Tonka toy......
he wasnt sure he'd make it home 35klms round trip......so we had a pot of T and a chat whilst it had a top up........
His words, didn't do his sums about milage properly, same'o about carrying capacity and spent too much on the vehicle in the first place comp to a small ICE........
It's now up for sale.....

I'm coverting a non runner Honda Gyro to electric for use just around the farm.....
PS, I do have an electric m/bike, *a gift*, not a very good driver. at £4000's..
Should have got a Honda 50 cub.....ps...now its a 125 and does more than 100mpg.....

Lastley,
glad to see Tatar will be building batteries in the UK......but what subsideies have we given at tax payers expense.....?
It'll be like Dyson......once the subsidies run out.....OFF to China or where ever is cheapest......
Good for employment in Devon - Dorset tho.....?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Mr J. Brown
my point about the down rated vac cleaners was, those who know everything have just taken our choice away.......

similary if u want a machine *for private use* thats not avail by the elf n safety mob just go buy it from some other nearby country.....

sold some items via FBM......
The chap came to collect them in a brand new elec pick up the size of a Tonka toy......
he wasnt sure he'd make it home 35klms round trip......so we had a pot of T and a chat whilst it had a top up........
His words, didn't do his sums about milage properly, same'o about carrying capacity and spent too much on the vehicle in the first place comp to a small ICE........
It's now up for sale.....

I'm coverting a non runner Honda Gyro to electric for use just around the farm.....
PS, I do have an electric m/bike, *a gift*, not a very good driver. at £4000's..
Should have got a Honda 50 cub.....ps...now its a 125 and does more than 100mpg.....
View attachment 163179

Lastley,
glad to see Tatar will be building batteries in the UK......but what subsideies have we given at tax payers expense.....?
It'll be like Dyson......once the subsidies run out.....OFF to China or where ever is cheapest......
Good for employment in Devon - Dorset tho.....?

Somerset, Bridgwater specifically.

 

[MikeJhn]

Clogs said
"similary if u want a machine *for private use* thats not avail by the elf n safety mob just go buy it from some other nearby country....."

Do you mean the "Health and Safety Executive" that venerable organisation that is responsible for saving thousands of lives by the forced upgrade of working conditions?

The vacuum cleaner legislation was brought in by the EU under the (Green) use of power and emission standards not the HSE.

 

[Jacob]

Bikes are the future.

https://visor.ph/bikes/the-worlds-l...TgV5dNZwHboP3Q-ve3KNgD8-qRAnEPXRW8B5kdafEWUKA

 

[Phil Pascoe]

In flat Countries.

 

[Jacob]

In flat Countries.

And most towns. Hilly countries too. Every uphill has a downside!

This is worth following What They Really Mean for You - Series 1: 1. Electric Cars

 

[clogs]

push bike mountains.....the average person cant fix em.....might be a good time to start a business.....

obv Mikejhn I annoy u......not my intension at all.......
elf and safety officers are just observing the rules that the know nothings from above have dictated......
as for the eu rated vac cleaner, all I said /meant was the dictated, under powered devices available dont really do the job properly and an industrial vac is an easy and worthwhile up-grade....
eu rules,
similar to straight Bananas and trying to stop the sale of mushy peas...etc etc..they are a joke.....

as for machines that u want and available elsewhere.....DeWalt planers from outside the eu, saws with dado blades...etc etc...
if it's what u want go get it.....stuff the rules of a woke, queer loving nanny state.........

 

[Spectric]

If anyone watched that program about EV's the other night and saw that charging station in Essex on the A120 then he was talking about issues with the supply from the grid to the substation that supplies his banks of chargers and that it is the grid that limits his capacity and I know that he is not far from a large 400Kv substation.

Her figures re the grid capacity may be true for America but our National grid have said it's not going to be a problem here, there will be areas of difficulty but we can do things to mitigate this.

The other interesting thing was the plug in street chargers for outside your house where you cannot get a cable to your car, only 7kW available so not a quick charge and this firm is fitting 500 in the area but I think they currently are using diversity factors that may be unrealistic. These 500 chargers if all used simultanously would need 3.5 mW and that would be a big shock to the system but they assume only a few chargers will be in use at the same time out of the total they put in and therefore the supply is adequate, if a lot of people suddenly buy an EV and a lot more charge them when they get home from work it is then probable that it will shutdown due to overload.

 

[John Brown]

push bike mountains.....the average person cant fix em.....might be a good time to start a business.....
View attachment 163476

obv Mikejhn I annoy u......not my intension at all.......
elf and safety officers are just observing the rules that the know nothings from above have dictated......
as for the eu rated vac cleaner, all I said /meant was the dictated, under powered devices available dont really do the job properly and an industrial vac is an easy and worthwhile up-grade....
eu rules,
similar to straight Bananas and trying to stop the sale of mushy peas...etc etc..they are a joke.....

as for machines that u want and available elsewhere.....DeWalt planers from outside the eu, saws with dado blades...etc etc...
if it's what u want go get it.....stuff the rules of a woke, queer loving nanny state.........

Those straight bananas!

 

[L M Joinery]

Quote from Colin Chapman "build in lightness"

For those who don't he was the founder of Lotus cars.

Colin Chapman was a very clever man showing a lot of well known manufacturers that power isn't everything.

 

[RogerS]

Colin Chapman was a very clever man showing a lot of well known manufacturers that power isn't everything.

I used to have a secondhand Lotus Elan 2+2. Or as I called it 'The Hole in the Ground Wot I pour money into' Still, a fab car to drive ...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious.

 

[John Brown]

I was told my mother used to hang out with Colin Chapman. Never gave it much credence until I read that he lived near Muswell Hill, which was where my grandparents, and I assume my mother, lived.

 

[Noel]

Colin Chapman was a very clever man showing a lot of well known manufacturers that power isn't everything.

Indeed he was but he was also a danger at times trying to gain an advantage over the opposition in F1 and F2.

 

[MikeJhn]

@clogs you have not annoyed me, it's the "elf and safety" supposed joke that annoys me, it's usually those that flout the rules that use that expression and get someone hurt or killed.