THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Jacob]

Nice little immigrant story here. Makes a change from the usual dismal and malevolent Farageist nonsense.
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ool-birchanger-refugees-teaching-training-irc

 

[Jacob]

Polls are interesting. Labour under Starmer now equalling 2017 under Corbyn.
Not good for Starmer the wonder boy so he's very lucky to have the tories collapsing so dramatically.

 

[Spectric]

things have to be very bad to risk such a a dangerous journey

That would be true if it was us or some other EU country but for people from Afgan or Iraq whose countries were decimated by the west and then we left them without any leadership or structure then in comparison that journey is a walk in the park. We have not seen what they have seen so the promises made by these so called gangs outweighs any risk that we might perceive.

Not good for Starmer the wonder boy so he's very lucky to have the tories collapsing so dramatically

But providing he keeps as quiet as posible and does not say too much then he wins by default, he needs to just keep his head down and avoid any debates then the keys to number 10 are his. This is when his problems really start because at some point reality must hit him and he will have to do something and once he sees the purse is empty then he might actually see the scale of the probleb. I wonder if it will be deja vu for Labour this time and will Jeremy hunt leave Rachel a nice little note saying there is no money.

 

[Rhossydd]

once he sees the purse is empty then he might actually see the scale of the probleb. I wonder if it will be deja vu for Labour this time and will Jeremy hunt leave Rachel a nice little note saying there is no money.

Every chancellor has left the 'no money' note, it's been a private running joke for decades. It was only the last government broke the privacy of it to try to make political capital. Pathetic.

Do you seriously think Starmer doesn't understand the scale of the financial problem he faces ? I'm sure he know far more than any of us here just how grim things are. As LOTO he'll be a far better briefed already than you'll ever have comprehension of.

You earlier criticised him for changing his mind and cutting back on commitments since taking charge, but a huge amount of that has been due to changing circumstances which he's been entirely honest about.

 

[Spectric]

Do you seriously think Starmer doesn't understand the scale of the financial problem he faces

The fact he is almost saying that he will fix everything makes you really question whether he does, is in denial to make things seem better or has a just suck it and see attitude, either way there is something not quiet right with starmer that raises so much doubt and one suggestion I have heard is that it is because he is presented as the Labour leader but has a strong torry presence.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The fact he is almost saying that he will fix everything makes you really question whether he does, is in denial to make things seem better or has a just suck it and see attitude, either way there is something not quiet right with starmer that raises so much doubt and one suggestion I have heard is that it is because he is presented as the Labour leader but has a strong torry presence.

I’ve not heard any of the political parties say anything other than they will fix everything.

Did you do English at school?

 

[John Brown]

The fact he is almost saying that he will fix everything makes you really question whether he does, is in denial to make things seem better or has a just suck it and see attitude, either way there is something not quiet right with starmer that raises so much doubt and one suggestion I have heard is that it is because he is presented as the Labour leader but has a strong torry presence.

Really, what is your point? The Tories are also saying they'll fix everything, but they've been unfixing it for 14 years!

 

[Amateur]

9

The data shows the majority arriving by small boats come from:

Syria
Afghanistan
Eritrea
Iran
Iraq
Yemen
Somalia

Countries of war / persecution



None of them have passports….countries that persecute their citizens aren’t too ready to issue passports.


It is the asylum seekers responsibility to provide evidence of who they are why they need asylum, without it their claim can’t be processed


These are not economic migrants, most are genuinely fleeing for their lives……things have to be very bad to risk such a a dangerous journey

42% of boat crossing in 2022 were Albanians. Designated a safe country.
in 2023 the number of Albanians had fallen but has been made up by a similar amount of Indians.
Another safe country.
Never the less there are nearly 21 000 that have failed to be considered admissable for aylum with only 21 actually removed.
We can both show numbers but still the problems remain.
And as you know its not just here. These same problems are rife throught Europe and the union.

 

[Jacob]

..........


But providing he keeps as quiet as posible and does not say too much then he wins by default, he needs to just keep his head down and avoid any debates then the keys to number 10 are his. This is when his problems really start because at some point reality must hit him and he will have to do something and once he sees the purse is empty then he might actually see the scale of the probleb. I wonder if it will be deja vu for Labour this time and will Jeremy hunt leave Rachel a nice little note saying there is no money.

Spot on. But what's he going to do if he finally gets into power?

 

[TRITON]

Section 24(D1) Arriving without entry clearance

Rolled onto the books in 20th march 2024

It doesn't really matter how many inhumane laws the conservative party initiates, they'll still be immoral, and can be fought on those grounds.

I expect the nazi party during their tenure enacted similar laws

 

[RobinBHM]

There may be a subtle semantic distinction between "entry" and "immigration" - but it is an offence to knowingly arriving to the UK without entry clearance

Illegal entry and related offences​

Section 24 of the 1971 Act contained provisions for illegal entry offences that were summary only. Most of these offences remain on the statute book, but section 24 has been amended by the Nationality and Borders Act (NABA)

The so called “illegal migrants bill” is a bit of Tory grift.

It prevents people arriving in small boats from claiming asylum in U.K., instead they have to be sent to a 3rd country for processing.

The only 3rd country scheme is Rwanda which is dead in the water.


Hilariously the Tories have out through a bill which means all people arriving by small boat can’t be sent anywhere, can’t be processed for asylum in U.K. and are thus stuck here for ever.

 

[Spectric]

Spot on. But what's he going to do if he finally gets into power?

I think that we will all find out together, the Labour party is like a wrapped up present or a lucky dip in that until it is unwrapped no one knows what is inside so really a vote for labour is a leap of faith and being hopeful that what is inside that parcel is really what you hoped for.

 

[RobinBHM]

Spot on. But what's he going to do if he finally gets into power?

Here is a discussion on that

First policies out of the gates:

1) Wes Streeting will straight away meet with junior Drs to resolve strike

2) conclude historical injustices like Hillsborough, Windrush, Grenfell etc

3) reinstate housing targets immediately

4) update national policy planning framework

5) boost workers rights with “a new deal for working people”

6) abolish section 21s

7) reforms for parliamentarians, with a ban on paid lobbying work and lobbying

8) investigate VIP lanes scandal.

For more info see here:

 

[Lons]

But providing he keeps as quiet as posible and does not say too much then he wins by default, he needs to just keep his head down and avoid any debates then the keys to number 10 are his.

I don't really want to vote for any of them, there's very little difference and manifestos aren't worth the paper they're written on. I've been around long enough to have heard and seen it all before.

As far as slimy Starmer is concerned he's second bottom of my list only because Farage is worse. I'll never vote for Starmer and his gobsh*te sidekick who continually protestd she's working class. Doesn't she listen to her boss who says anyone working class can't have savings and are living hand to mouth unlike an MP who's basic salary is over £91k (2.5x median UK / 4.5x those working full time on minimum wage). Add their expenses and allowances which can be twice that and clearly none of them are "working class".

The guy is is unreal. My father was a miner and we lived hand to mouth in a council house but because I worked hard and saved rather than spend on beer and cigarettes I'm not working class. I find his opinion insulting and every time he opens his mouth he alienates me further.

 

[RobinBHM]

I think that we will all find out together, the Labour party is like a wrapped up present or a lucky dip in that until it is unwrapped no one knows what is inside so really a vote for labour is a leap of faith and being hopeful that what is inside that parcel is really what you hoped for.

It’s no more a leap of faith than any other party

 

[Spectric]

that what is inside that parcel is really what you hoped for

I bet it will be a pair of socks, same as always !

Wes Streeting will straight away meet with junior Drs to resolve strike

Needs money initially followed by complete overhaul of the NHS so old Wes will be busy for the next five years.

conclude historical injustices like Hillsborough, Windrush, Grenfell etc

I think this comes down to compensation and lets not forget the post office scandal, more money required and a vast amount.

reinstate housing targets immediately

As fast as we build houses more will be needed to accomodate the people flooding into the country. If you build houses then also increase the local infrastructure to include doctors, schools, ultilities and local amentities but don't forget we already have a serious shortage of the people needed.

update national policy planning framework

I think this means fast track so ancient woodlands, green belt and other places can be easily developed. This will degrade what makes some places special and result in peoples homes being de valued and no one wanting to live in the area as it has lost what made it special. Also expect a wind turbine nearby.

boost workers rights with “a new deal for working people”

This will impact some busineses as they will not be in a position to meet the workers rights and continue as a business. Some will surely move what they can out of the UK like call centres and IT help lines.

abolish section 21s

At last something that is needed, a landlord should only be able to evict on certain grounds and not just because he now wants an air b&b as it is more lucrative.

reforms for parliamentarians, with a ban on paid lobbying work and lobbying

Another sensable idea that needs to go much further, should also include not using privy information to place bets, no moonlighting or second jobs and most importantly total honesty and answering questions without misleading. Could go further and want an immediate paycut of £15K to align the job with their skills set. and even then that is generous. Also any dodgy behavior is a lifetime ban from working in parliament, councils or other such organisations.

investigate VIP lanes scandal.

Long overdue, a full public enquiry to get to the bottom of who deliberatly and dishonestly undertook fraud during the covid crisis for personal gain.

 

[Spectric]

and his gobsh*te sidekick who continually protestd she's working class.

Perhaps being that close she explained the difference between male and female so he does not wonder why she is not standing next to him at the urinals !!

 

[Jacob]

Here is a discussion on that

First policies out of the gates:

1) Wes Streeting will straight away meet with junior Drs to resolve strike

2) conclude historical injustices like Hillsborough, Windrush, Grenfell etc

Without raising a huge amount of cash?

3) reinstate housing targets immediately

What does this mean, if anything?

4) update national policy planning framework

What does this mean, if anything?

5) boost workers rights with “a new deal for working people”

Will believe it when I see it

6) abolish section 21s

This is the most urgent and the easiest to implement. We'll see how it goes

7) reforms for parliamentarians, with a ban on paid lobbying work and lobbying

8) investigate VIP lanes scandal.

Vague.

 

[RobinBHM]

Without raising a huge amount of cash?

What does this mean, if anything?

What does this mean, if anything?

Will believe it when I see it

This is the most urgent and the easiest to implement. We'll see how it goes

Vague.

Jacob, you arent interested in finding out Labour policies, you would rather claim they dont have any, I am merely pointing out they do have have policies.


1) Conservatives dropped house building targets in 2022, Labour will reinstate it

There is a national framework for planning policy, it is what each local authority use as a basis for planning, Labour want to update it to speed up the process for building housing and infrastructure.

"Labour promised to deliver the "biggest increase in social and affordable housebuilding in a generation" by strengthening planning obligations to ensure new developments provide more affordable homes."
https://www.lgcplus.com/services/ho...iate-update-to-planning-framework-13-06-2024/

"Within this manifesto, Labour has pledged to build 1.5 million homes over the next parliament by reforming planning restrictions, among a series of other bold proposals."
https://urbanistarchitecture.co.uk/labour-planning-reforms/



2) Labours "new deal for working people" was published in 2022, Im not sure why you dont believe it, maybe you dont want to admit Labour will improve workers rights

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Employment-Rights-Green-Paper.pdf

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I have just been watching a presentation by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) on the main party election manifestos. Completely scathing - in summary:

"They have singularly failed even to acknowledge some of the most important issues and choices to have faced us for a very long time. As the population ages these choices will become harder, not easier. We cannot wish them away".

Link to full presentation IFS

IFS have a world class reputation for independent economic analysis and are financed by government departments, major charities with only a small amount of funding from business.

In short - political alignment is evidently a triumph of faith over reason.

A vote for either Green or Reform is looking attractive (despite obvious flaws) to send a message to the major parties that honesty and clarity is more important than empty and deficient spin.

Or go for the traditional tactical vote - LibDem. No better than Tory or Labour bur they seem like nice people (mostly)!