The 'Barkwindjammer method'

[barkwindjammer]

I'm about to pitch a curve ball :?

as a newbie, maybe with fresh eyes :shock: see

I have started along the road of 'free-hand' sharpening-the dark art labelled 'the Grimsdale method', and I have to say its suited me well, very well in fact, as a long time game hunter the notion of giving a boning knife a couple or three swipes on a ceramic rod (spyderco) has served me well over the years-its that easy-and thats what I like it, anyhoo I digress

I have been intrigued over the last couple of years at the different methods used worldwide to sharpen and hone cutting edges, and have observed that obviously an abrasive is 'always' used, so we can discount this from the 'common denominator list', angles, grind profiles come into the mix too, then we venture into secondaries, tertiaries (sp?) and this is where it gets muddied #-o , oh, then there are jigs, and other dances available

Ok, I'll get to my point, with my fresh 'Noob' eyes (see illustration above) I have observed that the Orientals (source: You-Tube) seem to 'mostly' concentrate on the flat (back/face) of their chisels and plane blades :idea:
now I'm not suggesting that the Japanese and others 'have got this right'-au contrare, this is only what I have observed, which would explain something that I found puzzling-but now makes sense , the Japanese flavour chisels (well some of them, probably the expensive end for export market) have a 'gouge' missing from their backs (faces), until recently I used to wonder "surely those gouged out backs/faces are going to lose that small sliver of metal left near their edge within a couple or three years with constant use " ? , not if your expending more honing time on the back than you are on the bevel :!:

my lightbulb moment :idea:

set the bevel at 19, 22, 22.74, 28, 30, 31.6 etc etc whatever you preference dictates-then leave it (for as long as poss)
subject your beloved to a good 'back rub' little and often -then strop off the 'nano-burr' on a belt, your hand, a lambs tongue, the Sunday Sport etc etc

Let the 'On-line flaming' begin :ho2

 

[jimi43]

If you strop the edge on the News Of the World it will probably end up with you just hacking at the wood. :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[barkwindjammer]

Some things to ponder

Stones in all flavours, be they Arkansas, India, Slate etc all come flat-, as do other mediums used for the purpose of honing/sharpening, some need to be held flat i.e. lapping films or papers.
Now the laws of Physics, as I remember them, dictate that a smaller surface will produce less friction than a larger surface-this is correct, however, the last time you honed a chisel/plane blade was there a noticeable difference in the amount of effort you had to exert between rubbing the bevel-as opposed to the back ?, for me the answer is no.

Its fair to comment that when chopping through wood, even something hard like oak then a sharp screwdriver could be employed to carry out the 'ruff stuff' , no ? , what I'm suggesting here is that 'ultra sharp' tools have a place, so the 'beloved back rub' should be preserved for your most prized edges-the ones you use for delicate work like paring and smoothing should have their 'bevel' left alone once its 'set'.

 

[Fat ferret]

Don't really understand why honing the back would be better than honing the bevel :? . If I hone the back of say a paring chisel it will take longer to sharpen, because surely I need to remove more metal? And I am making the chisel thinner every time. Or am I missing something?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Honing just the back of the blade is sometimes advocated by users of combination and multi-planes where there is a danger of destroying the profile of the blade. It is mentioned in Planecraft by C W Hampton and E Clifford when discussing the Rocord #405 Multi-plane. I'm not convinced myself and think that for best results you need a high polish on both sides of the blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Richard T]

Aaah Jasus... stone the bevel til you get a burr then take the burr off on the flat side. If it ain't good enough, do it again.

 

[Jacob]

Aaah Jasus... stone the bevel til you get a burr then take the burr off on the flat side. If it ain't good enough, do it again.

Too simple. It's got to be more difficult than that (obviously).
Mind you that's exactly what I do myself, being a simpleton.
I tried some of the difficult sharpening techniques but they are just not for me.
That Kell jig! :shock: The emperors new jig?

 

[Scouse]

Aaah Jasus... stone the bevel til you get a burr then take the burr off on the flat side. If it ain't good enough, do it again.

This should pop-up in bright red flashing letters every time the word 'sharpening' is typed into a thread!

 

[LuptonM]

OMG Mr Grim has a video dedicated to him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9DzOtsYxIA
His sharpening technique looks ******** LOL


I did try yesterday to sharpen that old skew rebate plane blade free hand and what i found was that although I am trying to hone the bevel flat, I slightly round it over like Mr Grim. However I use a micro bevel unlike Mr Grim and did manage to get it scary sharp so maybe it does work.

Why doesn't he use a micro bevel though?

 

[matthewwh]

Now we know why the oil price is so high, 'murrcan Jacob is using all of it to submerge his stones!

 

[Doug B]

Interesting. :-k

The chisel he sharpened must have been one of them Lie Nielsen ones as it appears he`d also lost his handle :lol: :lol:


Cheers.

 

[barkwindjammer]

After thinking about this for a while I'm going to have to make a retraction ,,,,,,,,


'The Barkwindjammer method' is far too long a name for this, so, I've shortened it to the BWJ method

so, here's where I'm at
I have an (adequate) selection of chisels, some I have bought new (Powerfix brand from Lidl-stop sniggering at the back), 4 Marples blue chip, and a dozen or so car boot finds (some have recognisable names, some don't.
All of these I have split into only 2 'battalions' - when laid on my bench I have the 'Barbarians' on the left and the 'surgeons' on the right.

The 'Barbarians' consist of my cheap chrome vanadium (Lidl) guys, a couple of car boot guys and Battalion mascot Pvt 'sharpened screwdriver'.

The 'surgeons' are enlisted from Blue chip regiment, and a selection of car boot guys.

The 'Barbarians' led by their mascot, I will happily pound and hammer, and relish giving them a (beasting), these guys are shiny and tough

The 'Surgeons' have some shiny and tough guys among them too, and are accompanied by some black patina'd 'old dogs' (high carbon steel/forged/cast- I dunno)-these guys I treat with care and respect, these guys get 'the back rub' only, the BWJ.

 

[Benchwayze]

What the 'ell is a Kell Jig?
Is that the jig that moves sidewise? :?

Now you see, there's the rub. We all have different ideas. Paul likes a mirror back on his blades. Myself, I think it might be desirable, but I don't have all that much time left to me. For me, if a chisel is flat, and is reflective enough to judge the mitre angle when I chop inlay, then it's shiny enough. The problem with mirror-backs is that the polishing can produce what opticians call a 'turned edge'. So although a blade might be like a mirror, it might not necessarily be flat all the way to its edges. 8)

John

 

[Benchwayze]

After thinking about this for a while I'm going to have to make a retraction ,,,,,,,,


'The Barkwindjammer method' is far too long a name for this, so, I've shortened it to the BWJ method

so, here's where I'm at
I have an (adequate) selection of chisels, some I have bought new (Powerfix brand from Lidl-stop sniggering at the back), 4 Marples blue chip, and a dozen or so car boot finds (some have recognisable names, some don't.
All of these I have split into only 2 'battalions' - when laid on my bench I have the 'Barbarians' on the left and the 'surgeons' on the right.

The 'Barbarians' consist of my cheap chrome vanadium (Lidl) guys, a couple of car boot guys and Battalion mascot Pvt 'sharpened screwdriver'.

The 'surgeons' are enlisted from Blue chip regiment, and a selection of car boot guys.

The 'Barbarians' led by their mascot, I will happily pound and hammer, and relish giving them a (beasting), these guys are shiny and tough

The 'Surgeons' have some shiny and tough guys among them too, and are accompanied by some black patina'd 'old dogs' (high carbon steel/forged/cast- I dunno)-these guys I treat with care and respect, these guys get 'the back rub' only, the BWJ.

Quite by coincidence BWJ I happen to know that Bookbinders use a knife that is shaped like a marking knife, for skiving leather. It's bevelled on one side only, and to keep them sharp enough it is only ever sharpened on the flat side. Then stropped, as you describe to remove the burr..
So there you go. There ain't nuthin' new under the sun!

Have a shufty:

http://bookbindingwithpetergoodwin.com/tips.html


John

 

[yetloh]

Aaah Jasus... stone the bevel til you get a burr then take the burr off on the flat side. If it ain't good enough, do it again.

+1 It really is that simple, unless it is me that is simple.

Jim

 

[Jacob]

OMG Mr Grim has a video dedicated to him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9DzOtsYxIA
His sharpening technique looks ******** LOL


I did try yesterday to sharpen that old skew rebate plane blade free hand and what i found was that although I am trying to hone the bevel flat, I slightly round it over like Mr Grim. However I use a micro bevel unlike Mr Grim and did manage to get it scary sharp so maybe it does work.

Why doesn't he use a micro bevel though?

Well there you go. :shock: I knew it'd catch on eventually. He's got it but he's a bit tidier than me.
NB you don't need a micro bevel because being convex it automatically has one already. It's effectively a series of microbevels from 30º (or whatever you choose) to lower angles.

Now we know why the oil price is so high, 'murrcan Jacob is using all of it to submerge his stones!

Good job he's not using Matthew's expensive snake oil!

NB One detail he mentions - easily overlooked, is that when doing the flat he is putting more pressure near the edge. This is how freehand you can remove the burr and get an even finer back bevel than by using the ruler trick, i.e. the angle will be well below 1º, barely above zero.

The video is Steve Branam's. He's got notes here: Grimsdale method. Parts 1 and 2. Don't miss part 2!

PS on of the SIDS* arguments against this method is that it isn't consistent or repeatable. But it is - you just do it the same as you did it the last time. Easy peasy.

*SIDS: "Sharpening Is Difficult School (or Syndrome)"

 

[barkwindjammer]

Don't really understand why honing the back would be better than honing the bevel :? . If I hone the back of say a paring chisel it will take longer to sharpen, because surely I need to remove more metal? And I am making the chisel thinner every time. Or am I missing something?

It takes no more exertion to hone the face (back) than it does the bevel, given that you have to 'concentrate' more when doing the bevel as your 'trying' to hold/maintain/repeat the angle-by hand-by jig etc, the face (back) of your 'fettling' chisel is flat-so is the stone !, and both will remain so when employing the BWJ.

 

[Fat ferret]

Ok but surely my chisel, for instance, won't last as long because it will get thiner as time goes on? Rather than just getting a bit shorter. And with plane irons for example we don't want to loose any thickness so surely honing the bevel is best?

 

[andy king]

This is no dig at the method - each to their own, but as i pointed out in the original thread, in the video here the end grain paring of cherry especially indicates to me that the chisel is way short of being truly sharp. At least, for what i would call sharp.

cheers,
Andy

 

[Paul Chapman]

It takes no more exertion to hone the face (back) than it does the bevel

BWJ, I think your proposal to hone just the back (flat side) of the blade is fundamentally flawed. If you look carefully at a plane blade that is blunt, you will see that the sharp edge has become rounded. That roundness is on both faces of the blade and must be removed to create a sharp edge. You won't be able to do this by honing just the flat side of the blade (unless you use something like the ruler trick but that is not what we are discussing here). The only practical way of removing the roundness from both sides of the blade is to hone the bevel. You will be able to feel when it has been removed as it will create a burr on the flat side of the blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul