Tell me about old hand saws

[LuptonM]

I am thinking when the carboot season comes round, I'll try and pick up some old saws when I get I back.

However, I know nought about old hand saws, so could some one enlighten me about which ones are the good ones (for use rather than collect ability) and how much to expect to pay for them (in ebay price as that's a good measure of value- well in comparison of old tool stores)?

The ones I am looking at are old dovetail saws, tenon saw and those larger panel/rip saws. Another thing I'll need to know is what condition would you consider saws being as beyond restoration (eg. teath missing??)?

I couldn't resist earlier on ebay to get this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT , but I am def thinking that ones at carboots would be better to play around with incase I mess up restoring them . Can anyone tell me anything about this saw make?

 

[MIGNAL]

The chances of them being sharp is very slim. Best to learn to sharpen and set them, otherwise it can be a bit costly if you don't have a good local saw doctor.
You shouldn't be paying more than a few pounds from a carboot. Most lay people see little value in saws unless they come with a 3 pin plug.
Pretty much any saw can be restored, it just depends how much work you are willing to put into them. I once converted a 5 TPI tip saw into 9 TPI using hand files. I won't be repeating the experience!
Look out for cracks in the metal (obviously). Elegant, nicely shaped handles are usually indicative of older, well made saws.
Sight along the length (teeth side) of the blade. Avoid those that are bent or those with a kink. It is possible to straighten these but it does take skill/knowledge.
Missing teeth: Rather have them all present. One tooth missing in a dovetail saw isn't going to affect it's function much. Avoid consecutive missing teeth.

 

[jimi43]

Hi Mate....

I found the best way to learn at bootfairs is to buy all the ones you can at next-to-nothing prices and then learn about each one.

With any vintage tool...no matter what the type...you get a "feel" for quality after a while...and you tend to spot bargains that way.

Generally speaking with saws...I tend to sight down the saw and check for straightness...teeth can be sorted whatever the condition after practice...and as you say...practice on cheap bootfair finds and you will get good at it.

Other things I look out for is old brass backsaws...with really old fonts and makers...nice handles...exotic woods...you know the shapes...those fine old flowing designs.

Just buy loads of tools and work out which ones are good...sell the rest on FleaBay!

Jim

 

[adidat]

i cant wait for boot fair season. one of my favorite activities for a sunday. i just love picking things up for the item that might be underneath and there are always lots of old rusty tools. alot of the time its, "i dont no much about it, just give us 50p mate".

bring on spring sundays!!!! (hammer) (hammer) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: \/ \/

 

[RogerP]

i cant wait for boot fair season. one of my favorite activities for a sunday. i just love picking things up for the item that might be underneath and there are always lots of old rusty tools. alot of the time its, "i dont no much about it, just give us 50p mate".

bring on spring sundays!!!! (hammer) (hammer) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: \/ \/

Boot fair "season" ... there's none around here (Gloucester) two each week every week of the year, Sundays and Wednesdays. Pre-dawn to early afternoon. Or Cheltenham every Sunday of the year except race days (it's at the racetrack). I'm off to the Sunday Gloucester one in a hour or so (dawn)

 

[Richard T]

You probably won't find a rip saw, but if you pick up an old 4 - 6 tpi cross cut which is blunt, (it will be) that is not too kinked, that is old, has an intact handle that has all its nuts in place and is tight, then you can file it to rip.
The last time I advocated learning to sharpen saws I got told off, so I'll keep it short.

If you do find a likely candidate but can't find saw files, which seems to be a problem for people, PM me and I'll see what I can find you.

 

[Aled Dafis]

If you do find a likely candidate but can't find saw files, which seems to be a problem for people, PM me and I'll see what I can find you.

Matthew at Workshopheaven has a good selection of Bahco saw files if anybody has difficulty finding them.
http://workshopheaven.com/cgi-bin/c...cat&ref=Saw+Sharpening+Files&catstr=HOME:Saws

Cheers

Aled

 

[MIGNAL]

I can understand why some people avoid sharpening their own saws, especially the dovetails with high TPI. Not easy and sometimes the 'experts' end up with an odd looking tooth or two. I certainly wouldn't advocate learning on an expensive 20 tpi dovetail saw.
The lower tpi saws (especially rip) are pretty straightforward, largely because it is so much easier to see what is happening to the tooth profile. X-cut is only a touch more difficult.

 

[Alf]

Most lay people see little value in saws unless they come with a 3 pin plug.

You're telling me. I had to beg my local tool pusher not to give me a pretty clean Disston D-8 yesterday. Damn near broke my heart to do it though. #-o Place was heaving with tool collectors yesterday (and a user - me O ) so I don't think we have a car boot off-season either.

While I think it gives you a lot more freedom if you can sharpen your own saws (and I do), I also think taking a car boot basket case saw and fixing its teeth is probably more than your average woodworker ever needs to know. So if you find a decent one, I'd be tempted to chuck it at a local saw doc to at least make sure you start with regular teeth. Ditto if you want to change the tpi. I've cut new teeth by hand more than once, and every time I wonder why. (Oh, and look out for an older Eclipse 77 saw set while you're about it, for when you need to re-sharpen and set.)

Other than that, can't add much to the advice already given really; a lot of it is a mix of instinct and experience. Did anyone mention pitting? Try and avoid deep pitting. A little bit isn't a problem, but try and avoid it at the tooth edge. I cleaned up another D-8 the other day (blog entry), and it's not a bad example of things to avoid. Pitted, bent, and young enough (1950s) that the handle shape was really becoming the most blocky, blister-inducing nightmare. Not that I've ever found a Disston handle I thought was a patch on an English handle anyway, but that's just me. Yeah, it works now, but it's not what you're looking for unless you're intending to somersault down the Saw Slope all the way to the van by the river. For the tenon saw, look out for enough saw plate still remaining or you'll bottom out on any but the smallest tenons. And steel-backed saws are always cheaper and just fine and dandy users; don't be blinded by shiny brass. Unless things have changed recently, nice dovetails saws tend to be a bit on the scare side. Those thinner plates and fine teeth suffer the slings and arrows more than most, plus there were always fewer of them bought in the first place than your average 12-14" tenon saw. If you find one great; if not, at least these days we have the likes of the Veritas to fall back on.

 

[Trizza]

Yep, filing a big rip saw is dead easy. I did a 5.5 PPI one recently and it was a breeze - the difference in the cut was night and day. Definitely a very useful skill to acquire!

 

[LuptonM]

I am definitely going to learn how to sharpen my self, as I am inpatient and probably couldn't cope waiting to get my saw back!!!
Also I have quite a few decades of woodworking in front of me, so economically it will make sense.

So I guess the best advice is buy ones that look pretty.....

 

[Aled Dafis]

So I guess the best advice is buy ones that look pretty.....

Yup!! That's probably the best and most succinct advice I've read on buying used kit in a long time. So right on so many levels.

If the saw looked pretty in the first place, chances are that the maker cared for it's manufacture, and used good materials. If it sill looks pretty, the chances are that it was a saw worth looking after, and the owner cared for it during it's working life.

Cheers

Aled

 

[Vann]

If it sill looks pretty, the chances are that it was a saw worth looking after, and the owner cared for it during it's working life.

Or it was no damn good and never got used... :shock: :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[bugbear]

I certainly wouldn't advocate learning on an expensive 20 tpi dovetail saw.

Or (for that matter) a cheap 20 tpi dovetail saw...

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

If it sill looks pretty, the chances are that it was a saw worth looking after, and the owner cared for it during it's working life.

Or it was no damn good and never got used... :shock: :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.

It's (in rare case) it's damn good and never got used...

In all the excitement, I forgot. Did I pay 2 quid or 3 for that?

BugBear