television and furniture

[devonwoody]

I have been watching those two late afternoon antique tv programs.

They visit historic homes and piles.

Have you noticed the fantastic furniture pieces that are previewed at those homes and also some furniture that is brought to the Antiques Road Show.

Some of the pieces are very imposing with inlays, veneers and very involved designs, most of them of course were hand made in the 18th & 19th centuries.

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by. I appreciate that fashions change, but no mansions and patrons seem to be commissioning that sought of thing these days?

Or mansions being built? (the last one I can think of is Castle Drago in Devon around 1910 and that is falling to pieces, made of concrete?)
Or am I suffering some illusions?

 

[Jacob]

No there's still a lot of rich about, it's just that they spend their money on other things. There are so many more things to buy nowadays and the whole world is accessible by air. They still have a problem unloading the filthy lucre. You can only eat one dinner!
Personally I think we should help them with higher taxation, instead of squeezing the poor with bedroom tax etc etc. Possibly get some of them into work - it'd do them good. Job creation for the idle rich.
What about a bedroom tax on this dump? -

 

[devonwoody]

Jacob, you should be awarded an MBE for that post, or have your head chopped off.

But that wont help get some works of art built will it.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by. I appreciate that fashions change, but no mansions and patrons seem to be commissioning that sought of thing these days?

I disagree with you, DW. If you look around the internet at stuff being made today, I think there are many designers and makers, both professional and amateur, who are making furniture every bit as good as anything made in the past. We also have furniture restorers who are able to restore work done in the past and which has become damaged or destroyed (think of the fire at Windsor Castle).

It might be easier to make stuff today because of access to better tools and facuilities but I believe that skill levels are as good today as they ever were.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[adzeman]

Have you noticed the fantastic furniture pieces that are previewed at those homes and also some furniture that is brought to the Antiques Road Show.

Pleased you made this comment. I watched one a couple of weeks ago when they visited the Wren library at Lincoln Cathedral been to Lincoln many times but never aware about the Wren library. I tried Googleing it but it does not show it off. What struck me other than the workmanship was the setting out of the shelves. It covered the walls of a long gallery, there were no gaps in the books and everything fitted. He must have spent hours counting and measuring the books and then calculating the lengths, widths and heights and drawing it out by hand, amazing.

 

[marcros]

i lived near there for 20 years and havent heard of it Mike!

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Many factors I guess, not least fashion. But my first thought, fron having watched the recent "carved with love" series, was that even the rich couldn't really afford such work back then. Two of three woodworkers profiled were brought low by their wealthy clients not paying their bills ...

Another thought - manual work af any sort is so much more expensive now. But then again, you can't run your workers into the ground in quite the same way these days, or use child labour, etc.

I think perhaps I'm glad that such ostentatious furniture, and the society that creates the demand for it, is not still in fashion !

 

[graduate_owner]

Perhaps the reason we don't see new stately homes is that designs have moved on from what they were years ago.

Perhaps if we saw a new mansion or stately home that had just been built we wouldn't call it a mansion at all, more like a monstrosity. And in keeping with modern designs of glass, concrete and stainless steel, perhaps the furnishings would also be of a futuristic design, who knows?

However I find it just overwhelming to see the craftsmanship in wood (and of course paintings, fabrics, plasterwork, stonework, metalwork, garden design etc etc, but for me it's mainly wood) that there is in the furniture, panelling and flooring of some stately homes.

I know they were built by obscenely rich people with obscene levels of ostentatiousness (is that a word?), and I have said in a previous posting that they were built on foundations of slavery and exploitation of the working class poor, but for all that it's great to see these national treasures being preserved and made accessible to the public.

I also like to look at the below stairs arrangements, kitchens etc where the wooden artefacts are functional rather than decorative - I find it fascinating to see how it all seemed to work so efficiently and seamlessly - provided of course you have enough staff - which may be another reason why new stately homes are not so much in favour. You just can't get people to work for £3-10/6 a year any more.

Another interest is early industrial sites, like the Styall estate and quarry bank mill - you can see the old looms etc work - no longer water powered but still fascinating. These places, some of them pretty dismal, are as much part of our heritage as the great estates at the other end of the humanity scale. Fascinating. I'm sure members can recommend plenty of these sites to visit.

K

 

[Alex H]

I

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by.

You might like to wade through this link http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=898

 

[devonwoody]

I

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by.

You might like to wade through this link http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=898

What was that, linoleum. OK only jokin. But some of that French furniture with the radius outlines etc. of yore still takes some beating.

Who would get £50k for a piece of furniture they had made today?

 

[adzeman]

i lived near there for 20 years and havent heard of it Mike!

If you live close could I ask you for a visit and post some picyures?

no mansions and patrons seem to be commissioning that sought of thing these days?

There's some pretty big stuff shown on Grand Designs and Great British Woodworkers showed a number of guy's emulating the masters.

I have been involved with Chelsea Harbour and some flats in docklands for Rich people (Sheiks, Hong Kong Chinese and a view Russians and they spend money as if its going out of fashion.

Its true about below stairs also its what my boss called 6" nail joinery.

One thing to bear in mind about these Stately Homes is a number were funded by slavery.

 

[AndyT]

DW if you want to see proof that there are craftsmen now making inlays, marquetry etc to the same quality as in the 18th century, make yourself a cup of tea and sit and have a read of W Patrick Edwards' blog. Start at this post http://wpatrickedwards.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/art-institute-of-chicago-project.html and make sure to watch the three videos - they not only show the quality of work achieved, but also exactly how it's done.

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks Andy, I have bookmarked the link and will be paying a visit shortly.

 

[marcus]

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by.

I went to a Barnsley workshop open day recently (they're just down the road from me). Most of the pieces were new work, but there were also some old pieces on display from a few decades back. It was a bit embarrassing because I was being shown round by one of the staff and kept enthusing about pieces, only to find that the thing I was oo-ing and ah-ing over was one of the old ones! The old stuff was just way better, more detailed, more refined, more 'alive'.

Yes there is skilled work done now, and stuff like CNC and laser cutting has opened up new possibilities, but I still think it is rare to find pieces with the presence and refinement of the best of the old work. To my eye there's plenty of panache but, on the whole, less sensitivity. I would say that the piece on the woodworkers institute site linked to above is a case in point.

For me the problem with the old setup was not with the stuff itself, but with the fact that it was concentrated in the hands of so few. With my utopian hat on I imagine a world where all building is done well enough, with a bit of love, a bit of soul, and everyone can afford a modest roof over their head, and can own at least one or two fine things — but no one gets a mansion full; and the craft traditions are appreciated and owned by everyone. One can dream....

 

[Graham Orm]

I have been watching those two late afternoon antique tv programs.

They visit historic homes and piles.

Have you noticed the fantastic furniture pieces that are previewed at those homes and also some furniture that is brought to the Antiques Road Show.

Some of the pieces are very imposing with inlays, veneers and very involved designs, most of them of course were hand made in the 18th & 19th centuries.

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by. I appreciate that fashions change, but no mansions and patrons seem to be commissioning that sought of thing these days?

Or mansions being built? (the last one I can think of is Castle Drago in Devon around 1910 and that is falling to pieces, made of concrete?)
Or am I suffering some illusions?

Have a look on Downton Abbey, some stunning stuff there.

 

[Harbo]

Actually Downtown Abbey is Highclere Castle the home of the Earl of Carnarvon just up the road from me.

Now struggling to make a living with all the tremendous upkeep costs.

Rod

 

[devonwoody]

I have been watching those two late afternoon antique tv programs.

They visit historic homes and piles.

Have you noticed the fantastic furniture pieces that are previewed at those homes and also some furniture that is brought to the Antiques Road Show.

Some of the pieces are very imposing with inlays, veneers and very involved designs, most of them of course were hand made in the 18th & 19th centuries.

Quite honestly I have never seen any pieces made over the past 50- years that come close to the workmanship of those days gone by. I appreciate that fashions change, but no mansions and patrons seem to be commissioning that sought of thing these days?

Or mansions being built? (the last one I can think of is Castle Drago in Devon around 1910 and that is falling to pieces, made of concrete?)
Or am I suffering some illusions?

Have a look on Downton Abbey, some stunning stuff there.

Could not see any of the contempory furniture mentioned, but the 19th century furniture looked stunning.

 

[devonwoody]

DW if you want to see proof that there are craftsmen now making inlays, marquetry etc to the same quality as in the 18th century, make yourself a cup of tea and sit and have a read of W Patrick Edwards' blog. Start at this post http://wpatrickedwards.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/art-institute-of-chicago-project.html and make sure to watch the three videos - they not only show the quality of work achieved, but also exactly how it's done.

Andy definately worth the visit, but mainly restoration however I though this one was the sought of quality and things I was talking about. so there is some to equal those bygone eras.

http://www.yannickchastang.com/design/pieces/ (however small)

 

[dickm]

Or mansions being built? (the last one I can think of is Castle Drago in Devon around 1910 and that is falling to pieces, made of concrete?)
Or am I suffering some illusions?

There's an imitation of a Georgian(?) mansion just north of Bicester, built some time in the last ten years for a sheik, as you might expect. It's a very accurate copy, to the extent that it actually looks convincingly original. Surprisingly, there is (or was a few years back) a public footpath through the grounds which runs within a few hundred yards of the house and gives a good view of it. No idea what the furnishings are like, though.
FWIW, I tend to agree with DW, but more on grounds of style than necessarily workmanship.

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks ****, I will see if I can google that mansion unless anyone has a link.