Taking a plunge to kitchen cabinet making

[learning_rocks]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the information on the forum. Finally taking a plunge (Design is all in place, using Sketchup). Will add the design to the thread later.

Plan is to buy 1200 x 2400 oak veneered ply (A/B grade) from http://cambridgetimber.co.uk/Oakplywood.html Thought of going with a local company to get the delivery charges to min. Still having doubts to go with veneered birch core A/B, or plain B/BB birch plywood

Going with pocket screws and gluing. Wish me luck and any info and pitfalls I might fall into.

Thanks

Vin

 

[learning_rocks]

Quick doubt, came to know the oak veneer is just .8mm, is that a good candidate for cabinet making?

 

[custard]

That's thicker than usual, most commercial veneers are 0.6mm. Even if you make your own saw cut veneers you wouldn't normally exceed 1.2mm thick (1.5mm at the absolute max), unless you were "cladding" onto a solid timber substrate. So, the answer to your question is yes, you're fine with that.

More of an issue than your materials are your skills and experience. Not having a go, but it rings warning bells when someone says they're going to put a kitchen together with pocket screws.

You'll probably spend more on veneered ply than you would just buying in ready made cabinets. But if you're determined to do the whole job yourself, and you've never actually made any cabinetry before, then before spending a packet on sheet goods at least have a trial run making a basic cabinet for the workshop, say something like a router table base or a storage unit, using lower grade ply.

 

[SteveF]

I am building my own kitchen
do I have the skills? who knows, time will tell
the material of choice for me was veneered mdf
swore blind i would not have a chipboard kitchen, never ever ever
turns out after a lot of thought, i would have less chance of sealing a veneered kitchen against water and stains, i am using egger mfc with tulip face frames
sort of feels a bit of a let down, but rather that than have it ruined in a few months from poor protection
just my 2 cents

Steve

 

[Chip shop]

I agree with custard, I obviously don't know your skill level and haven't seen your design but the thought of fitting a kitchen (if it is fitted rather than free standing) with anything other than bought in cabs sounds horrible. I've fitted a few. I sometimes make the doors and occasionally make custom cabs for awkward spaces, but for a full runs of cabinets I'd be be buying...preferably pre-built.

I have a pro-ish kit setup - panel saw (Robland, but heyho perhaps one day an Altendorf), CNC, edgebander, spray booth etc, kit to handle jumbo sheets and shed loads of space to do it in, but wouldn't consider making as a viable option.

Just my opinion, obvs. There's far more experienced kitchen guys than me on here.

 

[johnnyb]

I've made a few kitchens and I really liked parana pine blockboard. Unfortunately it's now cites and blockboard is tricky to source. As pros of course don't get involved but with a determined attitude and a lot of thought yes it can be done.
I've made (for money) many built ins using b and q spruce ply. It's a bit of a crapshot how flat it is but the finish is fine sanded and knot free(ish) also there big saw can be a powerful Ally.

 

[learning_rocks]

But if you're determined to do the whole job yourself, and you've never actually made any cabinetry before, then before spending a packet on sheet goods at least have a trial run making a basic cabinet for the workshop, say something like a router table base or a storage unit, using lower grade ply.

I have made some basic stuffs, shelves etc. Also have a scheppach precisa 3.0, hopefully that would give me precise cuts. Glad to know that .8 mm veneered birch would do the trick. Was a bit worried that any sanding may expose the inner veneer. Thanks for the advice

 

[doctor Bob]

As someone who makes a living from making kitchens, I'd just offer this advise, plan well and check everything fits and will open.
Remember drawers have to clear handles when in a corner, appliances only work with certain thickness doors. Leave space for worktop and coving overhangs.
Often appliances (fridges / freezers) have to be a certain distance from walls
How are you going to veneer your cut edges?

 

[sammy.se]

Hi dr Bob

How would the OP best know the dimensions needed for an integrated appliance, e.g. a fridge like in your example?

Especially with an inset door?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[D_W]

As someone who makes a living from making kitchens, I'd just offer this advise, plan well and check everything fits and will open.
Remember drawers have to clear handles when in a corner, appliances only work with certain thickness doors. Leave space for worktop and coving overhangs.
Often appliances (fridges / freezers) have to be a certain distance from walls
How are you going to veneer your cut edges?

as someone who just finished their own and who doesn't make cabinets professionally, I'd emphasize this.

I'd go so far as to say I'd rather have a semi-finished space and then check the function and space tolerances for each cabinet as you go (not just at the beginning). I didn't change my cabinet layout, but I did change the locations of some things in cabinets, and I checked everything twice.

I did as custard said, and probably spent more on materials (Two A-face cherry plywood and solid cherry with raised panels for the front) than RTA cabinets would've cost. But I got everything just the way I wanted it, and just have to get trim up yet.

I did about half of the wood work entirely by hand, so it took a while. The skills of working by hand made all of the fitting a LOT easier.

Not sure how you're going to do the fronts, but I used face frame (I know that's going out style, or went out a decade ago, whatever). I left the faces a quarter wide over the outside of the box and hand planed the fit of everything with that squish as the cabinets were going up.

Biggest challenge in the whole process was the glue up of the cabinets. My construction is rabbet and dado with glue, very few screws. Getting the box together, glued and the face frame on and everything square before any of the glue sets (and it happens quickly on the dry face of rotary cut ply) was a bear.

 

[thomashenry]

I did this 2 years ago. Big undertaking, but I got there. I just used bog standard 18mm WBP ply, with poplar face frames. Doors were frame and panel, again poplar for the frame, 9mm ply for the floating panel.

Painted mine, so there was no benefit in buying anything other than bog standard ply.

I used pocket screws a lot on my build. I wouldn't use them again for my next project, but that's only because I now enjoy making hand cut joinery. For a not-quite-beginner (as I was 2 years ago), I think pocket screws are a good option.

My kitchen also featured an integrated fridge freezer and dishwasher, inside face frame cabinets with inset doors. This is easy enough to do if you plan and measure:

The opening of my face frame is calculated as width of appliance + 20mm (door thickness) + 3mm (extra clearance, space for the sliders that slave the fridge door to the cabinet door).

 

[Nelsun]

If you do go with pocket holes, I'd want to plug them one way or another to avoid moisture getting to exposed wood. Kreg do packs of plugs (wood and plastic) or there's other ways like dowels (YouTube has several videos on the very subject). Both methods want trimming flush... or maybe not if it's all hidden. My favourite method is using 2-part car body filler as it, unlike plugs, fills any tear out and sands flat and smooth in a jiffy.

 

[Doug71]

As someone who makes a living from making kitchens, I'd just offer this advise, plan well and check everything fits and will open.
Remember drawers have to clear handles when in a corner, appliances only work with certain thickness doors. Leave space for worktop and coving overhangs.
Often appliances (fridges / freezers) have to be a certain distance from walls
How are you going to veneer your cut edges?

I fitted a kitchen that was designed and supplied by Howden joinery, it was all fine until the oven was in place and then the drawer in the corner only opened about 75mm because it hit the oven handle #-o

 

[thomashenry]

If you do go with pocket holes, I'd want to plug them one way or another to avoid moisture getting to exposed wood. Kreg do packs of plugs (wood and plastic) or there's other ways like dowels (YouTube has several videos on the very subject). Both methods want trimming flush... or maybe not if it's all hidden. My favourite method is using 2-part car body filler as it, unlike plugs, fills any tear out and sands flat and smooth in a jiffy.

I plugged mine with dowels, trimmed them with a handsaw, planed them flat and used wood filler to fill any tiny gaps. After painting, you couldn't tell where the pocket holes were.

 

[custard]

Painted mine, so there was no benefit in buying anything other than bog standard ply.

I remember commenting on how impressive your kitchen build was, but none the less I don't entirely agree with this. The problem with the lower grades of ply is that many of the imperfections, and indeed even the patched imperfections, can telegraph through paint and still be visible. A lot depends on the actual batch of ply you're working with, the type of paint, how it was applied, etc. So it's one of those things where one person might get away with it, but someone else gets caught out.

 

[thomashenry]

Painted mine, so there was no benefit in buying anything other than bog standard ply.

I remember commenting on how impressive your kitchen build was, but none the less I don't entirely agree with this. The problem with the lower grades of ply is that many of the imperfections, and indeed even the patched imperfections, can telegraph through paint and still be visible. A lot depends on the actual batch of ply you're working with, the type of paint, how it was applied, etc. So it's one of those things where one person might get away with it, but someone else gets caught out.

Fair point. All my ply surfaces were on the inside of cabinets only. If my ply was visible on the outside, then I would have been disappointed to have visible imperfections as you describe. Where I had visible cabinet sides, I let the face frame overhang the outer face of the plywood by around 8mm, and put on some beaded TnG effect MDF sheet.

 

[doctor Bob]

Just to emphasis my previous point, someone has posted up how they fitted their fridge, which is great if you have bought a slider door fridge, completly different if you use door on door. There are many different appliances, most are fairly standard but you need to research them before buying to ensure you have the right ones. Just do your reseach on installation.
I prefer door on door cooling appliances as they are bigger internally than a similiar slider model, and look more integrated.
I've been doing kitchens for 20 odd years now, there is no right or wrong way, I've seen them all. However over that 20 years we have refined our methods and the way they are built and installed. I think a lot of guys who do a one off kitchen over complicate thing big time.

 

[custard]

I think a lot of guys who do a one off kitchen over complicate thing big time.

That may well be true, but even without that problem they're still going to be painfully slow compared to an experienced kitchen guy.

I'm a full time furniture maker with a professionally equipped workshop, but whenever I do fitted work, or something in sheet goods, it always takes me twice as long as I expected. When I did our kitchen my wife was tearing her hair out at how slow it was. Even if I do something laughably straightforward like this router table,

I'll still lose a good hour or two just trying to remember how I last fitted drawer runners.

Sheet goods don't automatically equal "quick and easy". Unless you're doing this stuff all the time there's still loads to figure out, and no shortage of things to go pear shaped!

 

[AJB Temple]

I've done a few kitchens and separate utility rooms in my own houses over the years. All custom made. It is not fast, especially if you all have a day job, but it can be very satisfying to say "I made it myself". So I encourage people to have a go. It helps if you have some alternative means of cooking, such as a decent BBQ.

I have just done the concrete pour for my next kitchen, which is in a room about 10m by 8m. I still need to build a new utility room on the side, which will be somewhere around 6m by 3m. If my wife allows it, I will post up photos. At the moment it is just a n open 3 bay barn. I expect it to take me at least a year as there is a lot to do and I don't have much free time. In my case there is another working kitchen in the house, so this build is not critical.

 

[akakjs]

I'm currently about half way though my kitchen build (small kitchen only 10 or so cabs). I used a cutting service from my plywood supplier which has saved a mountain of time and doesn't add a huge amount to the material cost (10-20% maybe) and so far it's been very do-able. I'm not a professional woodworker so my progress is slow (100+ of hours) and there has been a lot learning along the way.

These are my tips/lessons learnt so far, many of these will be obvious to the more experienced but hopefully one or two will be helpful:

* Have a plan for everything written down (sketch-up is great for this kind of thing).
* I laid out the kitchen on the floor using masking tape when I was doing the design, it helped me visualise everything (I was starting with an empty room).
* Look for places to include a margin of error. For example my kitchen is a galley style, so I've allowed some extra space around the oven in case my cabinets on either side need a little extra room.
* Walls are not flat or plumb, no corner is square. At least in my house they're not
* The previous advice about appliances is good, know the exact dimensions of each appliance and the margin required. Remember to account for things like wall socket location in your appliance depths.
* I've made extensive use of clamp-able squares to help during assembly ("90 Degree Positioning Squares" on amazon, I went with the metal ones).
* Get good sandpaper if your still using DIY store sandpaper it's like night and day.

If you can dedicate the time, I'd say do it but expect it to be a lot of work.