Table saw - Thinish rips

[Bigbud78]

Don't crucify me as I'm learning but want to do it without loosing any digits

I'm happy ripping down bigger stuff but now I've got some 25x50 I want to rip down to 25x25, if I leave the guard on I can't get a push stick past the blade. What would be the best / safest way of completing this rip ?

Jim

 

[lurker]

Make long ( a generous 2ft)push sticks out of mdf
That way you can shove them either side of the blade if need be.
Use mdf in case the blade kicks the push stick back at you, that way it will just break instead of shoving timber into the palm of your hand

 

[Peter Sefton]

Withdraw the rip fence so it's lines up with the first gullet on the saw blade. If you have a fence that can be turned down to a low position use it. If you don't then make an L sectioned fence to get in close.
I cut inlays down to 1 mm wide on the table saw, it's all about set up and timber support.

Cheers Peter

 

[blackrodd]

As lurker says make a thinner one.
Personally, I've always used wood for pushsticks, If you would rather, there are some decent plastic ones available now
at the usual outlets, they are not too wide and feel nice to use
I have a kity one, came with the machine.
Regards Rodders

 

[Noel]

Haven't a picture to hand but make a push shoe with a notch/lip on it. About 5/6" wide by 10" with a good high handle. Set your fence to desired strip width plus push shoe width and use the shoe to advance the stock through the blade, repeat as needed. No need to adjust anything and hands are well away from the blade.

 

[n0legs]

I did some 5 mm thick strips 65 mm high the other day and have three points to make :-
Guard.
Push sticks/block/aids.
Concentration.

 

[dc_ni]

If you check Steve Maskery's video on youtube you can see the sort of push stick he uses,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp4ZR5WsL9w

jump to 7.13 and you can see it.

 

[Job and Knock]

Still leaves your hand too close IMHO. The recommended distance is something like 16in for the stick these days. To quote my City & Guilds notes (and the HSE website), "Push sticks should be at least 450mm long with a birdsmouth."

 

[Job and Knock]

To add to the last post, there's a goodish video on the Swiss SUVA safety site here (in German, sorry) which explains about narrow rips. It explains that you need to set the high-low rip plate in the low position so that the crown guard can still work properly, then use a side pusher and a long rear pusher

 

[Peter Sefton]

To add to the last post, there's a goodish video on the Swiss SUVA safety site here (in German, sorry) which explains about narrow rips. It explains that you need to set the high-low rip plate in the low position so that the crown guard can still work properly, then use a side pusher and a long rear pusher

That's a bit weird, but a very good video and technique one I will be using.

Cheers Peter

 

[ayuce]

Couldn't watch the link given above on iPad. Here is the woodworking related playlist on SUVA's youtube channel, all in German :-( Cutting norrow strips is 5th video on the playlist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXjHdBh ... d6oXI6FcDG

I don't know german but confused by Suva's suggestion to rise blade all up during rip cut ( 4th video 0:45 onwards) . Up to now what i believe blade should be half tooth above the wood for both clean cut and to avoid kick back ?

 

[Jacob]

My fence can be set on edge instead of vertically which makes it about 10mm high (it's tapered). This means you can get close in safely with a push stick however narrow the cut. You can make up something similar with a false fence - which I believe Steve has in his vid (which I haven't watched all through as I haven't had my porridge yet).

 

[Job and Knock]

I don't know german but confused by Suva's suggestion to rise blade all up during rip cut ( 4th video 0:45 onwards) . Up to now what i believe blade should be half tooth above the wood for both clean cut and to avoid kick back ?

No, it's only really to give you a clean cut. On a traditional large rip saw (i.e 24 to 36in blade) the blade was always run high.

The nearer the teeth are to horizontal when they enter the material the greater the tendency to push the work back towards you. Hence the advice (HSE, C&G, etc) to have the crown guard properly positioned, not to have your hands in line with the saw and to stand to one side

 

[custard]

To add to the last post, there's a goodish video on the Swiss SUVA safety site here (in German, sorry) which explains about narrow rips. It explains that you need to set the high-low rip plate in the low position so that the crown guard can still work properly, then use a side pusher and a long rear pusher

That's a very interesting video, thanks for posting.

It seemed to show two techniques for narrow ripping (three if you count the method where he loses his thumb!). The first technique was to pass the workpiece through the blade until the final inch or so, then turn the saw off and withdraw the workpiece. So the uncut couple of inches becomes a sacrificial element. I often do this, but I was unsure if the video was saying this is good practise or bad practise! Anyone any thoughts?

To be honest if I'm ripping solid wood less than about 100mm I almost always use the bandsaw and then plane/thickness to final dimensions, so narrow ripping is mainly for MDF and plywood, or very short pieces of solid wood that are too short to plane/thickness. And if I've more than a couple I'll use this device, an Aigner Vectral on my saw,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_4JJ5bFlaU

I've come to the conclusion that because I'll go to almost any length to avoid ripping on the table saw I just don't get enough practise to become really accurate (for anyone reading this who is considering buying a table saw, it doesn't work straight out of the box, besides setting up the machine there's still quite a lot of operator skill, feeding through a workpiece accurately when you're using a short fence takes practise!) so it's a self fulfilling prophecy where because I'm not good at narrow ripping I use all these tricks to avoid it and therefore never get any better!

 

[custard]

Here's a better video of the Aigner Vectral,

http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-too ... novations/

 

[Job and Knock]

The first technique was to pass the workpiece through the blade until the final inch or so, then turn the saw off and withdraw the workpiece. So the uncut couple of inches becomes a sacrificial element. I often do this, but I was unsure if the video was saying this is good practise or bad practise! Anyone any thoughts?

It's actually one way to avoid the tendency of narrrow strips to be shot back at the operator, so if you're having problems with that happening it's a workable solution.

 

[Jacob]

I had a look at the vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_4JJ5bFlaU
I thought he had 4 problems:
1 the big dust extractor hood doesn't cover the top of the blade - there is no crown guard
2 and it gets in the way of safe use of the push stick - it'd be safer without it altogether
3 the fence is to high
4 the push stick is too short, and plastic

All easy fixes, rather than buying another gadget, except he does need to buy a crown guard/riving knife fixture incorporating a connector for dust extraction

Stick with the push sticks - it becomes second nature after a bit.

NB given the fixes as above, that first pass shown on the vid would be done with two push sticks, not just one. Completely mad to have one hand 10" away when the other is only 1/2".

This is yet another of the many misinformation videos designed to sell more kit.

 

[Jacob]

The first technique was to pass the workpiece through the blade until the final inch or so, then turn the saw off and withdraw the workpiece. So the uncut couple of inches becomes a sacrificial element. I often do this, but I was unsure if the video was saying this is good practise or bad practise! Anyone any thoughts?

It's actually one way to avoid the tendency of narrrow strips to be shot back at the operator, so if you're having problems with that happening it's a workable solution.

Seems pointless to me - you have the risk of the whole workpiece being flung back rather than just the off-cut and it'd be bloody tedious if you were doing a lot of repeat cuts. Simpler to have the fence short enough to allow the off-cut to go free soon after it has been cut.

 

[ayuce]

I don't know german but confused by Suva's suggestion to rise blade all up during rip cut ( 4th video 0:45 onwards) . Up to now what i believe blade should be half tooth above the wood for both clean cut and to avoid kick back ?

No, it's only really to give you a clean cut. On a traditional large rip saw (i.e 24 to 36in blade) the blade was always run high.

The nearer the teeth are to horizontal when they enter the material the greater the tendency to push the work back towards you. Hence the advice (HSE, C&G, etc) to have the crown guard properly positioned, not to have your hands in line with the saw and to stand to one side

Just checked Bosch user manual, it suggests setting top of blade 5mm above wood. In addition to clean cut, i think this helps against binding and other type of kickback ( back teeth graps the wood, rises to the top of blade and throws like frisby) With this blade position last cutting tip will be on the center of blade always, so short fence should be inline with center of blade. Up to now can't understand why short fences position should be changed, your message solved the question.

Regarding the original question, below is the narrow strip cut jig which i used few times, with a push stick and push block. Felders fence looks like a factory made version of this.

 

[Jacob]

...
Regarding the original question, below is the narrow strip cut jig which i used few times, with a push stick and push block. Felders fence looks like a factory made version of this.

Not safe as shown. Fingers end up too close to, and reaching past, exposed blade. Better if you used it with push sticks - but then you wouldn't need it anyway!