Table Saw question from New Member.

[Joseph Borg]

Hi Guys,
I'm new to this forum as up two a couple of minutes ago.
I was reading some of the other questions earlier which prompted me to join.
Firstly I'll briefly inform you that I'm totally new to woodwork, though I' have had a love and desire to be a cabinet maker from child hood. A 'Youth Employment Officer' ensured that I'd loose my ambition for joinery when I was 15. by Youth Emplyment officer, you'll probably guess that I am in my sixties, and therefore doubt whether I'll do much more than knocking a few bits and pieces together from wood.
Now, getting to the point in question. Recently I bought two table saws, firstly a Ryobi, and them a Makita MLT 100. Neither of these two tables cut a 'True' right angle. Always a one or two degree difference over a length of 12 inches. What would your response be to my problem. I have sent both saws back to where I bought them from, and find myself kind of stuck without one.
I look forward to your response Guys.
Thanks in advance.

 

[marcros]

where is the error occurring. is it that the blade is not vertical, or is it that the fence is not parallel to the blade?

 

[Joseph Borg]

Hi Marcros, Thanks for getting back so quick,,,,I didn't expect such a fast reply.
The fence was parallel, and the blade vertical. I did try several things to compensate where the fault might be. I did initially think that it was my lack of expertise, but with all due respect, I know I'm not that bad.
I took the Makita back after having had it for three months, initially to have them look at the sliding table incase it was running out of 'true'. Makita's report was that the table was in order, but what I was expecting was not possible. I was quite taken back by this remark as I was under the impression that the table saw would do exactly what it was supposed to do. Needless to say with that remark, Axminster refunded my money. But now I am looking for an alternative system,but trying and seeing that it can ccut a true right angle before I purchase.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Sorry, I didn't quite understand either: Do you mean a right angle in the vertical or horizontal plane (or both)?

Either way, "one or two degrees" sounds like rather a lot!

There's a wee bit to setting up a table saw properly, and the less expensive ones seem to be hard to adjust, too. Also, there's a world of difference between the 'site saw' variety and the small cabinetmakers' type, like the Kity 419 and Axminster TS200 (to name but two).

I know a lot about the Kity, so I'll stick to that one:

First off you have to get the blade parallel to the mitre slots in the table top. It's not necessarily possible to do this for all angles of blade tilt!

Next, you align the fence to the same mitre track (minimises cumulative errors).

Finally, you set the mitre fence (the sliding one) so that it's exactly at right angles to the track, and take out any slop in its travel along the track.

That lot gets you in the ballpark, as the Americans say!

The table saw may cut well, but it's my least favourite tool to use , because of its danger. If you are saw-less at the moment, you might consider instead a small bandsaw, or a track (AKA "rail" or "plunge") saw for sheet material. Both can cut very accurately when set up and have fewer safety concerns, and, IMHO, are easier to set up well.

Finally, a recommendation you'll find often on this forum: get copies of Steve Maskery's excellent "Workshop Essentials" DVDs.

I must declare an interest in that Steve's a personal friend, but that shouldn't detract from the recommendation: they are excellent, clear and tell you exactly how to get the best from the machines. Both his table saw and bandsaw volumes are brilliant in that regard.

Hope that's useful...

... and "Welcome" too!

E.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I have owned several table saws over the years, some bought new, some second hand. I have to say I have not had the fortune to receive one when the blade cut true 90 degree cuts before some fine tuning.

Make sure you check the blade is square with the mitre tracks and fence and at right angles to the table bed. There are several ways to do this but a decent drafting square will provide you with good enough results.

It may be too that the table or extension wings are not on an even plane across its entirity. You may have to shim the table to get it all set up correctly. Even if the blade is true to the fence and mitre gauge if the table is not "flat" you won't get good results.

A cheap blade will also throw out a cut, again even if all else is square.

There are plenty of references to setting up a table saw on the net. The Americans love talking about TS's so find a US forum and you will soon see what I'm talking about.

Good luck.

David

 

[marcros]

It is disappointing, certainly. I am suprised though that the makita cannot be expected to reach that level of accuracy.

Have a look at either the axminster ts200 or kity 419, either new or secondhand. They certainly have the potential to cut accurately and many examples on here do so. The advantage of a secondhand saw is that you can tell the seller that you expect it to be able to cut square and want to see it doing so before purchasing. New saws are likely to arrive in pieces so it is difficlt to check.

All saws, however, are simple enough affairs. There is a spinning blade which must be completely vertical to the table. the fence must be perfecly parallel to the blade and at 90 degrees to the table. Sliding carriages etc complicate things a touch, but again, there are only 3 planes that need to be correct relative to something or other. I am sure that you know all of this. Getting them perfect may not be as simple!

I assume that the makita issue one was one of manufacturing tollerance. Perhaps as a site saw it wasnt needing to be as accurate as one designed for furniture making. Not wishing to try and teach you to suck eggs, but could it be that you were measuring things as parallel and vertical that were a few thou out- over a 12" cut it hardly needs to be out at all to give you an error of a degree over a foot.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've just been looking at the Toolstop promo on YouTube. I have to say that I am astonished that it is cutting out by quite so much. Makita are generally quite decent quality and it is clear that some thought has gone into its design. I would have expected you to get closer than 1 deg off square.
I think I would try to find out exactly which part of it is not set up properly, but if it's already gone back, I suppose it's a bit late now. I'm also astonished that Makita told you you were expecting too much, I'd say your expectations were absolutely justified.

So, if you want the saw-on-wheels type, have a look at the Bosch. I've not tried it myself, but if it's built half as well as my SCMS, it will do a fine job.

But be warned, ALL saws may need a bit of fettling. Even if they were perfect out of the factory (and that's a big if) they get knocked and bounced around, so it's easy for things to get out of square. But if you spend a couple of hours tuning it up SYSTEMATICALLY, then you should end up with a saw which pleases you.

HTH
Steve
PS, Thanks for the plug, Eric!

 

[AES]

@JosephBorg:

I'm in a pretty similar situation myself when it comes to woodwork. I know nothing whatsoever about tablesaws (I haven't even got one) but I think it's interesting that the last member who gave you an answer is Steve Maskery.

You'll probably notice that he talks about Workshop Essentials and DVDs in his Forum headline? Well I recently bought a set of three of his videos covering Bandsaws (I have got one of those!) and must say that if his Tablesaw DVD/s are anything like as good as his Bandsaw stuff then I'd strongly recommend you buy one/a set. Worht a lot more money thjan they cost. He has a website and once you've been here a while and searched around a bit you'll find plenty of members here with similar opinions on Steve Maskery's stuff. Usual disclaimers.

Oh sorry, "Welcome". As said I'm also very much a woodworking newbie and have found the people here generally friendly and the advise offered VERY helpful every time I've asked a question, no matter how basic. "Enjoy" as they say!

Krgds
AES

 

[Travis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRSarTJLMU&feature=fvwrel

This is part 1. There is a part 2. I don't know about any more parts.

The saw may be differant than what you have/had but the procedure is the same.

Hope this helps

Travis

 

[Joseph Borg]

Guys, What can I say??

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my question.
Some of the comments stated make me think that firstly I should get the suggested DVDs, and secondly, find my self a training course/evening class to learn brfore I purchase anything else. I am truly a raw beginner, and I'm sure that there where possibly things that I could have done that i didn't do.
Any suggestions for good tuition guys?? Bare in mind I am semi retired because I was made redundant 3 yrs ago, and still not working. So courses have to be of an acceptable budget too ;-).

Once again Guys MANY THANKS.
Joe

 

[marcros]

Joe,

I think you will struggle with finding physical courses that cover what you are asking. However, the workshop essentials dvd's mentioned above will provide you with far more tuition than they would likely provide.

Basically, there are only 2 things you need to learn- safe use of the saw, and fettling it so that it is accurate. Be very careful of copying youtube for the former!

http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ ... ation_id=7 gives you a sample of what the dvds are like. If you drop Steve a PM, I am sure that he will suggest which of the dvds would be most suitable for your needs.

 

[Joseph Borg]

Hi Marcros, Thanks for your sound advice......I have just attempted to pm Steve, but was kind of lost in it...Didn't know where to write what. So, Steve if you read this,,,Could you please inform me on the best dvd's that I may purchase. Oh, actually I am due to enrol on an Routing course soon at Axminster Sittingbourne.
Talk soon and God Bless Guys.

Joe.

 

[JakeS]

Steve if you read this,,,Could you please inform me on the best dvd's that I may purchase.

I'm not sure, but I believe he's not actually allowed to make a recommendation, on the grounds that he's an interested commercial party!

Personally, I've found Workshop Essentials 7 very useful for the proper setting-up and fettling of my cheap-but-not-crap Axminster TS-200; it now cuts square and parallel and with no real problems, and I've made a couple of things using it since following Steve's instructions which have turned out well as a result. I'm also planning to follow through several of the safety-accessory projects outlined in Workshop Essentials 8, as soon as I claw back sufficient space from the garage to do woodwork again (I got my motorcycle back after a house move, and it turns out it takes up more space than I'd remembered).

There are several other table-saw-oriented videos from Workshop Essentials, but those seem to be the two beginner-table-saw-owner ones, to me. I was impressed enough by the first bandsaw disc that I bought the full set, though. ;-)

 

[Steve Maskery]

LOL!
Well I think I'd be a pretty poor trader if I didn't give advice about what would suit best to my potential customers. I'll grant you that openly on this forum would not be the most suitable place though. I've sent Joe my phone number and invited him to call me for a chat. WHen I know what sort of work he wants to do I'll be in a better position to advise.
Jake, Thank you for the rec, and I'm very glad you are pleased with your purchases.
S

 

[JakeS]

LOL!
Well I think I'd be a pretty poor trader if I didn't give advice about what would suit best to my potential customers.

Well, OK, yeah - "I believe he's not actually allowed to make a recommendation on the open forum". ;-)

(It does seem a completely different thing to me to say "buy my thing because it's awesome" compared to "if you're going to buy any of my things, I'd recommend this one"... but I have no idea how strictly the moderators interpret those particular forum rules.)

 

[Joseph Borg]

Hi Guys,,,,Is there a script limit to this website. This is the third attempt to write this letter, the other two dissappeared when I pressed 'submit'. Never mind, we'll move on.
Jake thanks for your input regarding the Axmin TS-200. A friend of mine has that machine, and is very happy with it's performance. It would have suited me too as far as it's solid construction and price is concerned, except that My so called 'workshop' (really a block shed in the garden) is very limited for space. So the sliding attachment would have been constantly in the way. Another reason why I went for the Makita was because of the wheelie stand. I could move it easily to any position I needed. It would not have been quite so possible with the TS-200.
So guys what I have decided is that I'm going to invest in some dvd's and do some more homework to establish what is right for me.
I do very much thank you all for having taken the time to help me, and apologise if I seemed to have dismissed your input, Truly I haven't.
I shall go now and get used to the term 'FETTLING'.
God Bless you all.

AES. Blueking Fisher. Eric The Viking. JakeS. Marcros. Steve Maskery. Travis

Joe

 

[AES]

@Joseph Borg.

From me, thanks for your thanks - "Don't mention it" as they say, I've always found that no matter what silly Qs I ask here there are always plenty of people who answer helpfully so I thought I could do the same (on the rare occasions when I do "know" something that is!).

Enjoy your DVDs. If your eerience is anything like mine with the Bandsaw DVDs you'll not regret it.

Re text limits on this Forum,"no limits as far as I know". I too have had posts and/or replies disappearing into the ether sometimes. Frustrating isn't it? Now if it's something "important" I draft in Word first then copy/paste into the "Reply" window. Not being a PC geek I have no idea why that happens but having it in Word means you can simply cut & paste, again and not go to all the *** of typing again.

Cheers
AES

 

[JakeS]

So the sliding attachment would have been constantly in the way. Another reason why I went for the Makita was because of the wheelie stand. I could move it easily to any position I needed. It would not have been quite so possible with the TS-200.

Fair enough - I do find the sliding table rail sometimes gets in the way, and I'm in a double garage! Albeit not a dedicated-workshop double-garage, more's the pity...

For what it's worth, though - I invested in one of these:
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/workshop-&-po ... obile-base
which helps with the moving-it-around part quite a lot. If you have any other stationary machines, it may be worth a go.

(And I would echo AES - if I've been of any help, it's no trouble at all! I've certainly learned a lot from the guys on this forum myself, it would be churlish to fail to do the same if and when I can!)




As an off-topic aside: for what it's worth, if the problem you guys have had with posts disappearing is that you hit "submit" and the browser never gets to a new page, or shows an error, then you may benefit from trying a third-party browser like Chrome or Firefox. You may still get the error, but with those two - unlike Internet Explorer - when you hit the 'back' button to go back to your post, all the words you typed will still be there!

 

[AES]

Thanks for the tip. It seems to happen quite frequently for a while, then no problem for quite a time.

AES

 

[Joseph Borg]

And There's me feeling embarrassed thinking that it only happenst to me!! Well what I did on the previous to this is to go on 'Full Editor' and saved a drsft before I submitted,,,,,And Guess What??????
IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Guys
Joe