Table Saw kickback and trimmed finger (Graphic description & images)

[Doug71]

Yes a scoring blade is just another thing on the list that is waiting to catch you out.

They look quite innocuous protruding just 2-3mm above the table and are very easy to forget about if you are focusing on the main blade but they can make a mess of you or your project, plus they spin the wrong way so are always trying to drag you in.......

I do generally think a proper slider is the safest style of saw but the sliding table can catch you out, make sure it's locked before you lean anything (including yourself) against them

 

[worn thumbs]

In this part of the world we normally call them scribing saws.I know a few people that have had a bit of a fright from them and one who did a bit worse...

 

[Against_The_Grain]

In this part of the world we normally call them scribing saws.I know a few people that have had a bit of a fright from them and one who did a bit worse...

I've never heard anyone call them a scribing saw, always a scoring blade.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I've never heard anyone call them a scribing saw, always a scoring blade.

Me neither. A scribing cut is one I think of where, for example, a tenoned rail is cut to create a moulded shoulder on the tenon where the mould reverse matches the profile of the moulding on the morticed part, e.g., a tenoned rail of an architectural door where it meets the stile's mortice, all executed by machine, spindle moulder and/or tenoner, etc using matching cutters.

Still, I suppose folk use different names for the same thing. For example, in my early days I learnt from my co-workers that a hand drill was called a 'wheelie' and people in other workshops called them egg beaters. I imagine there are other names out there. Slainte.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Does anyone have any hands-on experience with one of these?

I’ve always been put off by them not being a cabinet saw. I’ve never used a table saw but I’ve read/heard many times that contractor saws aren’t very accurate.

My neighbour has the Festool sawstop but I’ve not seen it in use - he prefers his Hammer slider. I’ll ask him about it.

Re high blade when ripping - I also find this logically safer provided it's guarded - the overhead crown guard on my wadkin PP makes the guard height genuinely independent of the blade height, which I find useful. However, making a 4" rip with a 12" blade would necessitate the blade being full height and the guard barely covering the top. In this case even the best-guarded 12" blade would have had plenty of teeth available to kick back.

Having read through the thread, it looks as though another contributory factor to the accident was applying your lateral left-hand pressure too far to the rear of the blade - otherwise how did your hand get pulled in (or maybe I'm missing something)? I sometimes use a magnetic featherboard in which case it's positioned forward of the front edge of the blade, and when instead I use two push sticks I mimic that, basically just holding the left-hand push stick stationary like a featherboard, in front of the blade, and pushing the work past it with my right hand/push stick. I never feed with my left hand - my brain is too small to move both hands at once, and cut wood, and stay safe from the spinning wheel of death.

 

[tbone]

Hi All

I was recently ripping down some 4 x 4 pine, into 1 x 4.. Towards the end of the cut the saw kicked and my left hand, which was pressing the wood against the fence clipped the blade....
The saw trimmed off the tip of my first finger and has taken a chunk out of my second finger..

It happened so fast, my hands weren't close to the blade..... I wasn't tired, drunk or i considered dangerous.
Initially, it didn't hurt .. I applied pressure and managed to stop it bleeding and off to hospital.

After morphine and lots of doctors poking it.. If you apply direct pressure to the wound for 10 minutes.. Yes it will stop the bleeding but it doesn't half hurt.
The plan was to use half of my toenail however on close inspection I didn't have enough finger left.

The bone of my index finger has been shortened with something called a nippler, then rounded with what I'm guessing must be similar to a wood file.
The nail has been completely removed and the skin to the left wrapped around the bone and sewn back together.

What shocked me was, I visited a relatively small hospital (St Johns in Edinburgh), The surgeon is operating on 2 to 3 hands a week all from table saws..
I was one of the more fortunate victims, some loose their entire hand.

There are 3 surgeons in the plastics ward and multiple hospitals in Edinburgh.
I had no idea so many people were getting injured.. This is one city.

I asked the surgeon if the injuries were mainly inexperienced users and he said that it didn't make very much difference.... the previous victim had been using the same saw for 20 years.

I'm going to buy a power feed that will keep me further away from the blade, as far as I know, you can't retrofit the sawstop mechanism.

Sorry in advance for posting a gruesome picture, if one person who reads this can do something differently and
save their finger I would rather upset a few others..

View attachment 171128

As a joiner of 40 years i have seen more people put there hands in the possible danger zone. You can get that way if you let yourself and anyone can have an accident but you can put a layer of protection in place by always using push sticks, i use my second stick towards the end of the cut. Safety was explaned to me from a very young age and the way it was explained to me was..... if you are going down a stair case and you use the hand rail but still slip you will really limit the damage and if you dont and slip you could kill yourself.

 

[spiritburner]

Hi All

I was recently ripping down some 4 x 4 pine, into 1 x 4.. Towards the end of the cut the saw kicked and my left hand, which was pressing the wood against the fence clipped the blade....
The saw trimmed off the tip of my first finger and has taken a chunk out of my second finger..

It happened so fast, my hands weren't close to the blade..... I wasn't tired, drunk or i considered dangerous.
Initially, it didn't hurt .. I applied pressure and managed to stop it bleeding and off to hospital.

After morphine and lots of doctors poking it.. If you apply direct pressure to the wound for 10 minutes.. Yes it will stop the bleeding but it doesn't half hurt.
The plan was to use half of my toenail however on close inspection I didn't have enough finger left.

The bone of my index finger has been shortened with something called a nippler, then rounded with what I'm guessing must be similar to a wood file.
The nail has been completely removed and the skin to the left wrapped around the bone and sewn back together.

What shocked me was, I visited a relatively small hospital (St Johns in Edinburgh), The surgeon is operating on 2 to 3 hands a week all from table saws..
I was one of the more fortunate victims, some loose their entire hand.

There are 3 surgeons in the plastics ward and multiple hospitals in Edinburgh.
I had no idea so many people were getting injured.. This is one city.

I asked the surgeon if the injuries were mainly inexperienced users and he said that it didn't make very much difference.... the previous victim had been using the same saw for 20 years.

I'm going to buy a power feed that will keep me further away from the blade, as far as I know, you can't retrofit the sawstop mechanism.

Sorry in advance for posting a gruesome picture, if one person who reads this can do something differently and
save their finger I would rather upset a few others..

View attachment 171128

Jeez that is nasty .I do hope you recover soon and without too much trouble.

It is a very graphic example of just how dangerous these machines are even in the hands of experienced and trained users.

They will not give any quarter at all.

 

[BarbaraT]

Jeez that is nasty .I do hope you recover soon and without too much trouble.

It is a very graphic example of just how dangerous these machines are even in the hands of experienced and trained users.

They will not give any quarter at all.

Thanks, yes slowly getting better. After lots of physio, I have movement back.
Just need to work on strength and feeling now. I just about have the strength to squeeze a peg open and failed completely to pick up a coin. Just a shame that nerve regeneration and growth is so slow..

You also don't get any warning.. Still 50/50 on whether I'm going to get rid.

I did some cutting comparisons between the track saw, table saw and router and was surprised that the track saw outperformed the table saw and the router and track saw were very similar.

(This is with the same sheet of birch face plywood a new Sweedex blade in the table saw and a new Japanese blade in the track saw)

 

[Sideways]

A 42 tooth fine cut blade supplied as standard on (e.g.) a Festool TS55 is a fine blade. Scale the 160mm tracksaw blade up to a 14" tablesaw and you would need a 90 tooth blade for a fair comparison. But that doesn't take away from the fact that you are getting a nice clean cut with the tracksaw...

Hang in there. I hope that at least the pain is going down.

 

[spiritburner]

Thanks, yes slowly getting better. After lots of physio, I have movement back.
Just need to work on strength and feeling now. I just about have the strength to squeeze a peg open and failed completely to pick up a coin. Just a shame that nerve regeneration and growth is so slow..

You also don't get any warning.. Still 50/50 on whether I'm going to get rid.

I did some cutting comparisons between the track saw, table saw and router and was surprised that the track saw outperformed the table saw and the router and track saw were very similar.

(This is with the same sheet of birch face plywood a new Sweedex blade in the table saw and a new Japanese blade in the track saw)

View attachment 173637

Well I am glad you are on the mend, you can not have enough physio in my book , I know I have had 18 operations on my knees and have 2 prosthetic knees and a kneecap.

I'm now awaiting another replacement knee as my left is worn out after 3 years!

Thats why they dont like to change your knees until your in your mid 70's when they thing you have slowed down....

Keep the physio up as long as you can and use the meme ICE , Ice, Compression and Elevation and that will probably help a lot with the pain and it will allow the inflammation to reduce especially at night when you sleep. Speak to your medical people though first before changing anything

As regards the saw I would treat this as a learning curve, the saws are very safe, its us that are not, there are too many good points about having a circular saw to get rid of it but I agree with you about the tracksaw, I used one for ripping large boards at a friends house , they are still dangerous but a lot less than putting a wood sheet on to a small table saw and if your saw is typical site saw size and is not part of a large workbench setup and bolted down solidly then I do believe its inevitable that an accident will happen.

I would probably in your case buy a track saw, and then keep my table saw, but use it mainly for crosscut and short ripping, and perhaps if you don't have a sled, make a crosscut sled and use the jigs that are out there to make things easier and have some fun and use the track saw for ripping large boards it's just safer I feel especially if you do not have your Saw built into a large workbench type scenario where you can lay the wood on the bench and quite easily pass it through the blade.

I think people who rip large boards through a small site saw on its own legs are totally mad, especially if you're doing it on your own and dont have telescopic rollers to help.
I do hope the hand continues to improve. It will take several months before it's back to normal, I'm sure and obviously it will be a very nervous day the first time you go back and use your table saw but if you treat it with the respect it needs, I am sure you will be fine and won't suffer another accident.

In my opinion, there are just too many good reasons why you should keep your table saw.

Best of luck Barbara
Regards from a very sunny Spain

Neil
This is the view I wake up to every day ,blue sky ,sun and the hills over in the distance towards Barcelona ( and the odd electric cable!! )
View attachment 36CE3C9A-D088-43A3-AD5E-BEC4562C38CF.jpeg

 

[Bruce Mack]

There are no wooden push sticks available in the U.S. We are united in our opaque front.
I made mine from 9 mm white oak. I think it looks rakish.

What is that weird device resembling a boat tiller?
I'll do a photo of push sticks in action tomorrow. Very easy to use in a quite relaxed manner I promise you!

 

[Sachakins]

IIRC, There is also a name difference. One is a push stick the other is a push block, two very different beasts.

 

[worn thumbs]

I will repeat my former point that if you have a crown guard in place,and a few American woodworkers actually do use them,the risk of the wood binding on the saw and achieving lift off is greatly reduced.With no crown guard,the block or dogleg push stick exerts an amount of downward force to keep the wood in contact with the table.Push sticks forever!

 

[spiritburner]

I will repeat my former point that if you have a crown guard in place,and a few American woodworkers actually do use them,the risk of the wood binding on the saw and achieving lift off is greatly reduced.With no crown guard,the block or dogleg push stick exerts an amount of downward force to keep the wood in contact with the table.Push sticks forever!

What is a Crown guard please. I am currently looking to purchase a table saw, Thanks

 

[Luckosaurous]

What is a Crown guard please. I am currently looking to purchase a table saw, Thanks

It’s the plastic thing that covers the blade and stops your fingers coming into contact with it.

Saws normally come with one which attaches to the riving knife, but they can look a bit flimsy and difficult to use.

You can buy much more robust aftermarket ones that can also help with dust extraction, but they aren’t usually cheap.

 

[worn thumbs]

The orange part above the blade on this example.

 

[spiritburner]

It’s the plastic thing that covers the blade and stops your fingers coming into contact with it.

Saws normally come with one which attaches to the riving knife, but they can look a bit flimsy and difficult to use.

You can buy much more robust aftermarket ones that can also help with dust extraction, but they aren’t usually cheap.

So were just talking about the normal blade guard, the one that never appears in American YT videos along with the Riving knife. ? Probably because they all have seriously overpriced SawStop machines now and feel its not necessary.... Sarcasm excepted
Why its called a Crown guard is beyond me !! Good old fashioned Blade guard is more exact. I was beginning to think I was missing something exciting !

Thanks for sharing

Luckosaurous​

 

[Luckosaurous]

So were just talking about the normal blade guard, the one that never appears in American YT videos along with the Riving knife. ? Probably because they all have seriously overpriced SawStop machines now and feel its not necessary.... Sarcasm excepted
Why its called a Crown guard is beyond me !! Good old fashioned Blade guard is more exact. I was beginning to think I was missing something exciting !

Thanks for sharing

Luckosaurous​

You know what? You’ve got me doubting myself now about whether the flimsy plastic ones are actually crown guards or not.

As I understand, a crown guard sits over the top of a blade, like a crown in a head. This would be an example of an aftermarket version:

 

[spiritburner]

You know what? You’ve got me doubting myself now about whether the flimsy plastic ones are actually crown guards or not.

As I understand, a crown guard sits over the top of a blade, like a crown in a head. This would be an example of an aftermarket version:

View attachment 174107

I agree , now that would make sense totally, that is no normal blade guard. I'm assuming the bar in the middle some how clamps to the front of the saw to stop the Crown from moving out of position.

That is one serious piece of kit.....

 

[leofbyrne]

Hi All

I was recently ripping down some 4 x 4 pine, into 1 x 4.. Towards the end of the cut the saw kicked and my left hand, which was pressing the wood against the fence clipped the blade....
The saw trimmed off the tip of my first finger and has taken a chunk out of my second finger..

It happened so fast, my hands weren't close to the blade..... I wasn't tired, drunk or i considered dangerous.
Initially, it didn't hurt .. I applied pressure and managed to stop it bleeding and off to hospital.

After morphine and lots of doctors poking it.. If you apply direct pressure to the wound for 10 minutes.. Yes it will stop the bleeding but it doesn't half hurt.
The plan was to use half of my toenail however on close inspection I didn't have enough finger left.

The bone of my index finger has been shortened with something called a nippler, then rounded with what I'm guessing must be similar to a wood file.
The nail has been completely removed and the skin to the left wrapped around the bone and sewn back together.

What shocked me was, I visited a relatively small hospital (St Johns in Edinburgh), The surgeon is operating on 2 to 3 hands a week all from table saws..
I was one of the more fortunate victims, some loose their entire hand.

There are 3 surgeons in the plastics ward and multiple hospitals in Edinburgh.
I had no idea so many people were getting injured.. This is one city.

I asked the surgeon if the injuries were mainly inexperienced users and he said that it didn't make very much difference.... the previous victim had been using the same saw for 20 years.

I'm going to buy a power feed that will keep me further away from the blade, as far as I know, you can't retrofit the sawstop mechanism.

Sorry in advance for posting a gruesome picture, if one person who reads this can do something differently and
save their finger I would rather upset a few others..

View attachment 171128

Thank you so much for posting this. I wish you the very best and a speedy recovery.
I say a prayer before using any saw and have been a violin- and bow-maker for many years.
I always, always, always use push sticks - pieces of timber 1" square x 12". I wrap orange duct tape round the 'handle' end and keep them close by - 2 for each saw. I must be more careful with the planer.
I will be saying prayers for you - if that is allowed on this forum.
Leo