Table Saw kickback and trimmed finger (Graphic description & images)

[Agent_zed]

Er - hate to say it but obviously it did require push sticks!
They are fail safe so even if you have missed out with other safety measures your fingers are still well out of the way. Should be a routine every time with any decision not to use them being carefully considered.

I may be wrong but my understanding is that planers require push blocks not sticks. you want to keep the workpiece flat and level. I don't think pushsticks would work as well in terms of the workpiece. My planer came with push blocks so I assume they are correct for the machine.

 

[Jacob]

I may be wrong but my understanding is that planers require push blocks not sticks. you want to keep the workpiece flat and level. I don't think pushsticks would work as well in terms of the workpiece. My planer came with push blocks so I assume they are correct for the machine.

Push sticks for planers too. Though you have to think about where you put the pressure exactly. Most essential at the end of a pass where you are suddenly exposed to the cutters. At this point you probably push horizontally rather than hold down.
With a big enough bird's mouth and 2 sticks you have 4 points to apply pressure - from above and/or the side as necessary.
I've never quite seen the point of push blocks - they mean leaning over the work and shortening your reach,
As for "correct" - it's a bit of an unknown it all depends on what you do and how you do it.
Even HSE don't claim to be "correct", but just advisory.

 

[MarkAW]

Thanks for this reminder I'm glad you posted it. The shocking image serves as an impactful reminder. Hope you have a quick recovery.

It was useful to read all the warnings in this thread, my takeaways from this thread are:

• Kickback can pull my hands in even if not near the blade
• Use 2 push sticks
• Push sticks should be long
• Don't use whilst tired
• Don't rush
• Think the process through first
• Make sure the saw is correctly setup
• Wear suitable PPE (but not gloves)
• Keep all guards in place and recognise they don't defend all angles
• Feather boards, clamps and feeders can provide extra safety
• No shortcut on any of the above is worth the consequences
• Other saws are dangerous too
• It's not just loss of limb but also likely lasting nerve damage

Many points I already knew but have been reinforced.

 

[user 43410]

HSE only applies to businesses, not DIYers.

Hey Ho, here we go again, Push sticks essential whether one or two for the last 300mm of the cut, see the HSE ACOP for guidance, free to download. I strongly dispute the suggestion to use MDF. Given the dimension quoted above the push stick has to provide in addition a grip space to be safe, one of our major suppliers have in the past sold plastic black in colour which were of insufficient length to meet this, plastic pushsticks are weak if cut back unlike their solid timber example.
Kickback, we all have experienced this I fear, reasons, blunt tooling, insufficient peripheral speed of the blade (think Strimmer), pushing too hard on the feed, wrong diameter blade, timber being sawn 'Hog Down' Timber being trapped between moving blade and fence (tension in the timber caused by case hardening or being grown on the side of a hill (compression Wood one side tension wood the other )
Never saw timber with the crown guard oe rining knife removed, never flip a large section of timber over. Always use the correct blade type Anti kick back saw blades are available less teeth bigger gullet lift the blade up to give a 'cat claw' cutting action (Ripping ) crosscutting demands an almost negative sawing action, Dogs claw action, effectively a 'Rub cut' Finally never stand in line with the cut, that is unless you dont mind having your 'Privates' harpooned !

 

[Agent_zed]

Push sticks for planers too. Though you have to think about where you put the pressure exactly. Most essential at the end of a pass where you are suddenly exposed to the cutters. At this point you probably push horizontally rather than hold down.
With a big enough bird's mouth and 2 sticks you have 4 points to apply pressure - from above and/or the side as necessary.
I've never quite seen the point of push blocks - they mean leaning over the work and shortening your reach,
As for "correct" - it's a bit of an unknown it all depends on what you do and how you do it.
Even HSE don't claim to be "correct", but just advisory.

will agree to disagree. I personally don't think push sticks will work correctly in this instance especially with wide boards as you are only on the one edge, rather than the centre like a push block. I also don't think that you have maximum control as the length of a pushstick designed for a tablesaw. A tablesaw pushstick is much longer as the blade extends much further from the table. Trying to put a pushstick at the rear of a long board may even be impossible with the extra length.

either way some form of pushing implement is advised.

 

[sploo]

Using a planer (US: jointer) does give me concerns. I don't find push sticks that great on this tool, but equally I really dislike using my hands on stock as it passes near a massive spinning cylinder of doom. I think if I used one more often I'd buy (or build) an automatic power feed.

 

[Agent_zed]

Using a planer (US: jointer) does give me concerns. I don't find push sticks that great on this tool, but equally I really dislike using my hands on stock as it passes near a massive spinning cylinder of doom. I think if I used one more often I'd buy (or build) an automatic power feed.

I tend to use the thicknesser part of my machine rather than the planer for this reason. It gets it flat enough for my needs generally and I don't have to worry about cutting my fingers off.

My planer came with something similar to this Push Blocks | Next Day Delivery
These actually say they can be used with table saws but I would not do this as it it not far enough from the blade to my mind.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for this reminder I'm glad you posted it. The shocking image serves as an impactful reminder. Hope you have a quick recovery.

It was useful to read all the warnings in this thread, my takeaways from this thread are:

• Kickback can pull my hands in even if not near the blade
• Use 2 push sticks
• Push sticks should be long
• Don't use whilst tired
• Don't rush
• Think the process through first
• Make sure the saw is correctly setup
• Wear suitable PPE (but not gloves)
• Keep all guards in place and recognise they don't defend all angles
• Feather boards, clamps and feeders can provide extra safety
• No shortcut on any of the above is worth the consequences
• Other saws are dangerous too
• It's not just loss of limb but also likely lasting nerve damage

Many points I already knew but have been reinforced.

I'd add; even of you are doing everything else wrong then push sticks will at least keep your fingers away from the cutters!
Gloves can be handy for grip if you are handing roughish or large sawn timbers. Not PPE but the better grip increase control.
Kick back may be avoided with short fence so the workpiece goes free as it passes the blade.
There was mention of long push sticks - but in fact the longer they are the less they are needed as you are by definition some distance from the blade. Maybe push sticks as soon as you are reaching over beyond the edge of the table but hand-handling before that - you have to anyway to get it on to the table.

 

[scooby]

Using a planer (US: jointer) does give me concerns. I don't find push sticks that great on this tool, but equally I really dislike using my hands on stock as it passes near a massive spinning cylinder of doom. I think if I used one more often I'd buy (or build) an automatic power feed.

The only issue with that is you’re basically mimicking what the thicknesser does (Ie forcing it down onto the bed) so you’ll likely still have bow, cup and/or twist.

if you feel uncomfortable about using the planer and don’t work with overly pieces you could always use a simple jig to use the thicknesser as a planer. Or just use hand planes if you don’t have loads to flatten.

 

[Bruce Mack]

Yes, but vanishingly few if they use 2 push sticks and crown guards, making SawStop irrelevant.
Normal braking important though as not noticing that a switched off blade is still spinning seems to be a cause of accidents.

Jacob, for me using 2 push sticks is like asking for chopsticks at a steakhouse. One push stick held in the left hand for rips to the left of the fence, stand to the right of the fence, and hold the saw table with the free right hand. I use a stick similar to this, permitting good forward pressure and helping to keep the board against the table. I always have the guard in place. I also use a featherboard anterior to the blade. Nothing is perfect, but this is the most secure for me.

 

[worn thumbs]

I don't have much enthusiasm for push blocks or those dogleg push sticks.I simply prefer a normal push stick of 12 -15 inches long as it keeps my fingers further from the danger zone.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, for me using 2 push sticks is like asking for chopsticks at a steakhouse. One push stick held in the left hand for rips to the left of the fence, stand to the right of the fence, and hold the saw table with the free right hand. I use a stick similar to this, permitting good forward pressure and helping to keep the board against the table. I always have the guard in place. Nothing is perfect, but this is the most secure for me.
View attachment 171346

Those are not push sticks. I suppose you could call them "pull hooks " or something?
You can use both hands with push sticks which gives you much more control.
This is a push stick Axminster Workshop Push Stick

 

[Inspector]

Jacob, for me using 2 push sticks is like asking for chopsticks at a steakhouse. One push stick held in the left hand for rips to the left of the fence, stand to the right of the fence, and hold the saw table with the free right hand. I use a stick similar to this, permitting good forward pressure and helping to keep the board against the table. I always have the guard in place. Nothing is perfect, but this is the most secure for me.
View attachment 171346

Bruce the reason the Brits shun those kind of push sticks and the Gripper type is that your hands have to pass over the blade to complete the cut. If and when a kickback happens the work and the push stick shoot out of the blade area leaving your hand above the blade, usually dropping on to it. They tend to flop over and to the side with your hand going down with it. With the longer "British pattern" push stick if everything goes for **** your hands are well out of the way and don't play with the teeth of the blade. I personally steer clear of your style of push stick and use modified British ones ( a longer top beak to the birds mouth to help hold down the wood at the end of the cut).

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Bruce the reason the Brits shun those kind of push sticks and the Gripper type is that your hands have to pass over the blade to complete the cut.

And you have to reach further over the whole table. It's much easier and more relaxed to use the sticks and stand more upright with your hands well away. But you can lean forward if you want to e.g. flip offcuts out of the way with a stick - not so easy with a little grabber thing.

 

[MarkAW]

I'd add; even of you are doing everything else wrong then push sticks will at least keep your fingers away from the cutters!
Gloves can be handy for grip if you are handing roughish or large sawn timbers. Not PPE but the better grip increase control.
Kick back may be avoided with short fence so the workpiece goes free as it passes the blade.
There was mention of long push sticks - but in fact the longer they are the less they are needed as you are by definition some distance from the blade. Maybe push sticks as soon as you are reaching over beyond the edge of the table but hand-handling before that - you have to anyway to get it on to the table.

I've heard that gloves and spinning machines can be a hazard, as in, if the glove catches you get tangled/pulled in

Yeah it would be impossible to move large stock about with 2 push sticks. I would assume their use for within the footprint of the table.

It's worth taking a step back to notice we're a bunch of relatively unknown people on an internet forum. It would be wise to seek a professional for safety training!

 

[Sachakins]

So hard to give any advice, not knowing your skill level, set up, previous training.

Given that I'd suggest a training or refresher course from a professional might be of benefit.

But even the best training in the world can't help with a lapse in concentration.

 

[Bruce Mack]

Bruce the reason the Brits shun those kind of push sticks and the Gripper type is that your hands have to pass over the blade to complete the cut. If and when a kickback happens the work and the push stick shoot out of the blade area leaving your hand above the blade, usually dropping on to it. They tend to flop over and to the side with your hand going down with it. With the longer "British pattern" push stick if everything goes for **** your hands are well out of the way and don't play with the teeth of the blade. I personally steer clear of your style of push stick and use modified British ones ( a longer top beak to the birds mouth to help hold down the wood at the end of the cut).

And you have to reach further over the whole table. It's much easier and more relaxed to use the sticks and stand more upright with your hands well away. But you can lean forward if you want to e.g. flip offcuts out of the way with a stick - not so easy with a little grabber thing.

You are both right; I am wrong. As I took photographs of my setup to show how my hand is lateral to the blade, never above, I remembered how uncomfortable I feel during rip cuts of narrow material. Though theoretically the guard will protect me from a lateral slip, it may not ("If it can happen, it will"). I'll make a couple of much longer push sticks, but I will use only one at a time. I need my death grip to keep me secure.

 

[sploo]

The only issue with that is you’re basically mimicking what the thicknesser does (Ie forcing it down onto the bed) so you’ll likely still have bow, cup and/or twist.

if you feel uncomfortable about using the planer and don’t work with overly pieces you could always use a simple jig to use the thicknesser as a planer. Or just use hand planes if you don’t have loads to flatten.

The risk of deforming material with the power feed rollers is a very good point.

I do often flatten up a face using a hand plane before using the thicknesser. Thicknessing stock completely with a hand plane is something I'll do occasionally but I'd admit it's a job I don't find particularly enjoyable.

 

[scooby]

The risk of deforming material with the power feed rollers is a very good point.

I do often flatten up a face using a hand plane before using the thicknesser. Thicknessing stock completely with a hand plane is something I'll do occasionally but I'd admit it's a job I don't find particularly enjoyable.

I don’t own a planer so I usually flatten stuff by hand and then use my thicknesser. I sometimes use a board and wedge jig on my thicknesser for flattening . Flattening and thicknessing all by hand is something I’d rather not do.

 

[Jacob]

You are both right; I am wrong. As I took photographs of my setup to show how my hand is lateral to the blade, never above, I remembered how uncomfortable I feel during rip cuts of narrow material. Though theoretically the guard will protect me from a lateral slip, it may not ("If it can happen, it will"). I'll make a couple of much longer push sticks, but I will use only one at a time. I need my death grip to keep me secure.View attachment 171362View attachment 171363

What is that weird device resembling a boat tiller?
I'll do a photo of push sticks in action tomorrow. Very easy to use in a quite relaxed manner I promise you!