Table Saw kickback and trimmed finger (Graphic description & images)

[Inspector]

Barbara you are to be commended for talking about your mishap to warn others and I hope you the best of recovery outcomes.

While some of the comments here lean towards chastisement they are made with the best of intentions and they shouldn't put you off.

The reason you will never see a retrofit SawStop mechanism for other saws is that the entire assembly under the table is different to any past saw. Impossible to make them for all makes and types. I believe our 60 hertz verses your 50 hertz power is the reason SawStops have not been imported in the past or perhaps your market wouldn't be big enough.

The parent company of Festool has bought the SawStop company and Festool has been playing with some job site saws with the braking mechanism in them. Exact same brake mechanism as my saw actually. I don't know if they hit the market in your neck of the woods but they certainly won't be in the same class as your 12" bladed saw. Some of the original patents are running out soon but there were quite a few filed after for other aspects that may hold competitors from following suit for some years to come. There are a few of the expensive slider type manufacturers with braking mechanisms but as expected are out of the hobby woodworking fraternity.

I have had my SawStop for almost 15 years at least and wouldn't consider trading it for anything else. I work with it exactly as if it didn't have the blade brake and if if it never activates it has still been money well spent. I suggest you consider immigrating here it you want one.

Pete

 

[clogs]

having shown u my mishap, at 74 years of age been lucky to have had no other troubles......

I'm Industrial first aid qualified and have helped quite a few from amputated fingers to horrendus cuts in limbs over the years.....
Treat urself, it's realy worth it....quite happy to recomend the general First Aid Course offered by the likes of st Johns Ambulance etc....
Not just for urself but for other's around you....

my daughter is a EMT and will soon be studying for her paramedic quals.....
some of the things she's seen and put in bags of frozen pea's would make ur hair curl....
be careful out there......

 

[Luckosaurous]

Barbara you are to be commended for talking about your mishap to warn others and I hope you the best of recovery outcomes.

While some of the comments here lean towards chastisement they are made with the best of intentions and they shouldn't put you off.

The reason you will never see a retrofit SawStop mechanism for other saws is that the entire assembly under the table is different to any past saw. Impossible to make them for all makes and types. I believe our 60 hertz verses your 50 hertz power is the reason SawStops have not been imported in the past or perhaps your market wouldn't be big enough.

The parent company of Festool has bought the SawStop company and Festool has been playing with some job site saws with the braking mechanism in them. Exact same brake mechanism as my saw actually. I don't know if they hit the market in your neck of the woods but they certainly won't be in the same class as your 12" bladed saw. Some of the original patents are running out soon but there were quite a few filed after for other aspects that may hold competitors from following suit for some years to come. There are a few of the expensive slider type manufacturers with braking mechanisms but as expected are out of the hobby woodworking fraternity.

I have had my SawStop for almost 15 years at least and wouldn't consider trading it for anything else. I work with it exactly as if it didn't have the blade brake and if if it never activates it has still been money well spent. I suggest you consider immigrating here it you want one.

Pete

I’m not sure it’s to do with the power but rather the regulations that have prevented sawstop from entering the European market.

I’m pretty sure both the Harvey and Laguna saws made to be sold in Europe are different to the rest of the word.

I’m not sure which specific regulation stops them, or whether it’s just that they can’t be bothered adapting their saw for us.

 

[akirk]

£2k buys it in the UK
https://www.axminstertools.com/fest...h-sawstop-107040?tagrid=61019110&glCountry=GB

 

[Spectric]

As a result, if I am tired I don't go in the workshop

Tiredness is never a good state to be operating any machinery in, including driving and make sure you are not pushed for time so trying to get things done before another appointment . Another point is that the area around your table saw should be clear of trip hazards, no trailing cables, extraction hoses or things you can fall over as this is often overlooked.

 

[TRITON]

£2k buys it in the UK
https://www.axminstertools.com/fest...h-sawstop-107040?tagrid=61019110&glCountry=GB

Thats the one I am intending to buy. And I would have one by now only I fail to save up and keep spending money on bike stuff.
Currently im building a carbon full suspension enduro bike, laden with all the bestest of kit. Top forks that retail close to a grand, latest brakes,vented rotors all adding up to over £2k.
The bike of course will more than likely be a spare hung on the wall for an indeterminate amount of time, and I might not even ride it.

Something deffo wrong with me. needs sawstop TS, builds spare bike that costs more.

 

[Luckosaurous]

£2k buys it in the UK
https://www.axminstertools.com/fest...h-sawstop-107040?tagrid=61019110&glCountry=GB

Does anyone have any hands-on experience with one of these?

I’ve always been put off by them not being a cabinet saw. I’ve never used a table saw but I’ve read/heard many times that contractor saws aren’t very accurate.

 

[Morag Jones]

Hi All

I was recently ripping down some 4 x 4 pine, into 1 x 4.. Towards the end of the cut the saw kicked and my left hand, which was pressing the wood against the fence clipped the blade....
The saw trimmed off the tip of my first finger and has taken a chunk out of my second finger..

It happened so fast, my hands weren't close to the blade..... I wasn't tired, drunk or i considered dangerous.
Initially, it didn't hurt .. I applied pressure and managed to stop it bleeding and off to hospital.

After morphine and lots of doctors poking it.. If you apply direct pressure to the wound for 10 minutes.. Yes it will stop the bleeding but it doesn't half hurt.
The plan was to use half of my toenail however on close inspection I didn't have enough finger left.

The bone of my index finger has been shortened with something called a nippler, then rounded with what I'm guessing must be similar to a wood file.
The nail has been completely removed and the skin to the left wrapped around the bone and sewn back together.

What shocked me was, I visited a relatively small hospital (St Johns in Edinburgh), The surgeon is operating on 2 to 3 hands a week all from table saws..
I was one of the more fortunate victims, some loose their entire hand.

There are 3 surgeons in the plastics ward and multiple hospitals in Edinburgh.
I had no idea so many people were getting injured.. This is one city.

I asked the surgeon if the injuries were mainly inexperienced users and he said that it didn't make very much difference.... the previous victim had been using the same saw for 20 years.

I'm going to buy a power feed that will keep me further away from the blade, as far as I know, you can't retrofit the sawstop mechanism.

Sorry in advance for posting a gruesome picture, if one person who reads this can do something differently and
save their finger I would rather upset a few others..

View attachment 171128

Oh yuk, but thank you for the timely reminder. Hope I heals well and you don't get too much phantom pain. Deffo going to pay more attention. Best wishes from Morag

 

[rob1693]

Depends how you fettle them and set them up

These finger joints were done on a screwfix version of evolution rage 5s with an home made jig

 

[akirk]

Does anyone have any hands-on experience with one of these?

I’ve always been put off by them not being a cabinet saw. I’ve never used a table saw but I’ve read/heard many times that contractor saws aren’t very accurate.

no reason to think that it is not pretty accurate - yes cast iron tables and saws weighing a couple of tonne have an advantage, but most woodworkers I know use portable / site saws and have very few issues not everyone has space or money for industrial kit and while we can all see that industrial kit is hugely better and more accurate, the reality is that wood tolerances are not precise anyway so there is a cutoff beyond which you are simply chasing the unobtainable in accuracy.

 

[Jacob]

Does anyone have any hands-on experience with one of these?

Hands-still-on?

I’ve always been put off by them not being a cabinet saw. I’ve never used a table saw but I’ve read/heard many times that contractor saws aren’t very accurate.

My feeling is that if you get the push stick and crown guard habit you will never need saw stop.
And most if us will encounter and have to deal with non-saw-stop saws, planers and spindles.
Somebody on here many years ago brought up the 2 stick thing and I've been at it ever since, and going on about it at length!
It seems to be a relatively new idea, and even controversial, which is very odd.

 

[Hornbeam]

first ever prob in 50 years...tiredness and a blunt blade.....u know, I said this the last cut of the day.....

I'm sorry. I have recently ripped construction 2x's using the combination blade I use for everything. I noted extra resistance though nothing untoward. Because of your posting I will try to use my rip blade for thick material in the future. I think that safety has a small element of good luck along with good practice. Twenty years ago I was ripping material while standing to the side, using a pushstick. An offcut flew by and imbedded itself in the drywall behind me, undoubtedly my fault though the cause was not evident.
I applaud your courage and hope your healing is excellent.

2 very clear messages in this
Use the right blade for the job. It only takes 1 or 2 minutes to change a blade and you probably save most of that time back with a better quality of cut and less clean up
Just like any hand tool, a worn/blunt blade means people use more force and in doing so lose control. A sharp tool is a safer tool ( strange that some people just dont get that bit. My mum is a bit scared of using sharp kitchen knifes. I wont use her knifes without sharpening as I think they are dangerous )

Best wishes. I hope everything heals well
Ian

 

[Luckosaurous]

Hands-still-on?

My feeling is that if you get the push stick and crown guard habit you will never need saw stop.
And most if us will encounter and have to deal with non-saw-stop saws, planers and spindles.
Somebody on here many years ago brought up the 2 stick thing and I've been at it ever since, and going on about it at length!
It seems to be a relatively new idea, and even controversial, which is very odd.

I see where you’re coming from, but I still don’t have anyone watching over my shoulder to point out any mistakes I’m making, so I worry complacency/hubris /divine intervention may still mean I need to take my socks and shoes off to count to 10.

I have on rare occasion, when it’s getting towards the point of an evening where I need to stop making noise out of consideration for neighbours, but I still have a couple of cuts left to do, took a couple of risky cuts with a mitre saw rather than take the time to set them up properly. So I know that I have the potential to do something that I shouldn’t do. Me buying something like that is basically sensible present-me, protecting stupid future-me

 

[Spectric]

latest brakes,vented rotors

Do you really need vented rotors on a push bike, many cars do not need vented rotors so unless you are superman and traveling at high speed then why ?

Then do you really need the expensive saw with that safety feature considering you must enjoy risk as you are a cyclist.

 

[Stigmorgan]

Ouch, I sympathise with you, about 8 years ago during my construction days I was working 12hour night shifts on London underground, mostly installing cable trays and brackets (mind numbingly boring) it was about a 90 minute motorbike ride between home and work, one morning on my way home I could tell the chain was getting lose so once home I put the bike up on the paddock stand and adjusted the chain I always clean and lube the chain when I adjust it so I started the engine and put it in 1st so the wheel was spinning, sprayed WD40 into the chain and revved the engine to expel the excess and dirt, then I use a rag to dry the chain before applying the wax lubricant, only this time because I was exhausted I didn't realise part of the rag had wrapped round my finger, the rear sprocket grabbed the rag and pulled my finger in, it felt like the chain and just bit and released my finger so I looked down expecting to see a hole in my finger, to my surprise I was looking at a cross section of my finger the pull was strong that it had ripped the top section of finger off at the joint, didn't hurt at all, not until after the surgery at least, was quite interesting to watch them have to trim the bone back so that they could pull the skin over and close it up, once the anaesthetic wore of the pain was unbelievable for weeks.

 

[TRITON]

Do you really need vented rotors on a push bike, many cars do not need vented rotors so unless you are superman and traveling at high speed then why ?

Then do you really need the expensive saw with that safety feature considering you must enjoy risk as you are a cyclist.

I need both. And something else

N+1 you know.

 

[BarbaraT]

I wish I had read this thread sooner, Hopefully with two push sticks my left hand would have stayed clear. This kind of thing looks about the best. There are alot of options out there where your hands are alarmingly close.

I assumed it would just get pushed in the direction of the blade.... As they say Assumptions make an arse of us all..

Very sorry to hear of your accident and my best wishes for a quick recovery. A useful tip - if the hand / finger is painful or throbbing, elevate it. In my experience, too many doctors and nurses fail to emphasise this. Either use the good fingers to hook onto the collarbone or if seated put your forearm on a pillow, the same when in bed. Gravity causes swelling, which is painful.

Simon
Retired doctor

Thanks for the tip.. They emphasised the importance of keeping it elevated, even gave me a pillowcase tied to make a sling to help.
Most of the pain seems to be from the nerve that use to be attached under the fingernail.. feels just like a splinter under the nail.

quite interesting to watch them have to trim the bone back so that they could pull the skin over and close it up, once the anaesthetic wore of the pain was unbelievable for weeks.

Sounds far too similar.. first night was rough when the anaesthetic wore off.. I was hoping it was going to get better sooner than that. I don't like taking the strong painkillers as they leave me feeling sick and fuzzy... I bought some fancy hydrogel dressings in the hope they would speed up the healing process.

The bike is possibly a seller. Got the frame far cheaper than you'd normally buy it at, and given its type and heritage I decided to build it with its intended purpose in mind.

I've already got the expensive bike.... Carbon wheels, carbon frame, even carbon handlebars.
Just frustrating as I can't ride it..



I still want to build something like this but bigger, 4 big sprung bearings dedicated for ripping.
Spending a fortune on a CAD licence has got to have some advantages.... especially as I'm now stuck on the computer for a while.

At least with something like this I don't need my left hand to be anywhere near.. looks a lot more accurate than a push stick.
You could be posh and have a pneumatic cylinder to press it against the fence.



Has anyone tried the "JessEm Clear Cut Stock Guides for Table Saws"?

 

[AndyMc]

I have on rare occasion, when it’s getting towards the point of an evening where I need to stop making noise out of consideration for neighbours, but I still have a couple of cuts left to do, took a couple of risky cuts with a mitre saw rather than take the time to set them up properly.

Mitre saws can be highly dangerous and although the focus is rightly on table saws I'd like to share a photo of what I keep on my shed wall.

It's perhaps not very obvious, but that's the blade guard on a Makita mitre saw. An insufficiently secured workpiece caught on the blade and impacted the guard, causing the steel to shear. My hand was on the workpiece at the time. The whole saw (all 30kg of it) leapt off the bench with the force of the impact. I consider myself incredibly lucky I can type this with both hands.

As a result I do two things now: Always properly clamp the work piece, never use my hand to hold it in place. The clamp on the Makita is a PITA, especially for trenching cuts, but I'd rather that than the alternative. The other thing I do is take a look at that mangled piece of metal every time I start to use a power tool. Paranoia can sometimes be a useful state of mind.

 

[Fergie 307]

snap....I know ur pain.....
first ever prob in 50 years...tiredness and a blunt blade.....u know, I said this the last cut of the day.....
for what use it is *nerve damage* I wish I'd cut it off.....a thru n thru....
View attachment 171143

View attachment 171144

Similar here, always use push sticks, except on the one occasion. Tired in a hurry and the next thing you know I've lost 1/4 inch off my left index finger. Nothing like as spectacular as yours, but bl**dy painful. And still no real feeling in the tip two years or more later.

 

[worn thumbs]

I wish I had read this thread sooner, Hopefully with two push sticks my left hand would have stayed clear. This kind of thing looks about the best. There are alot of options out there where your hands are alarmingly close.

I assumed it would just get pushed in the direction of the blade.... As they say Assumptions make an buttocks of us all..


View attachment 171230


Thanks for the tip.. They emphasised the importance of keeping it elevated, even gave me a pillowcase tied to make a sling to help.
Most of the pain seems to be from the nerve that use to be attached under the fingernail.. feels just like a splinter under the nail.


Sounds far too similar.. first night was rough when the anaesthetic wore off.. I was hoping it was going to get better sooner than that. I don't like taking the strong painkillers as they leave me feeling sick and fuzzy... I bought some fancy hydrogel dressings in the hope they would speed up the healing process.


I've already got the expensive bike.... Carbon wheels, carbon frame, even carbon handlebars.
Just frustrating as I can't ride it..

View attachment 171240

I still want to build something like this but bigger, 4 big sprung bearings dedicated for ripping.
Spending a fortune on a CAD licence has got to have some advantages.... especially as I'm now stuck on the computer for a while.

At least with something like this I don't need my left hand to be anywhere near.. looks a lot more accurate than a push stick.
You could be posh and have a pneumatic cylinder to press it against the fence.

View attachment 171228

Has anyone tried the "JessEm Clear Cut Stock Guides for Table Saws"?


View attachment 171251

Please,please get a crown guard on that saw! In fact you now have the opportunity to design a real masterpiece while the healing progresses.