Table questions

[Chris Knight]

I want to make a kitchen table more or less like the pictures below. Long dimension of the elliptical top is 60 inches with width 50 inches. The legs as shown are approximately 4 inches wide by 1 1/2 inches thick. There is nothing magic about these dimensions, they just look more or less right. Height of the table is 32 inches.

I'd be interested in ideas for making the legs - two thoughts have so far occurred to me:- firstly to use cold bent laminating, secondly to glue up plywood laminations cut in the profile of the leg and then to veneer it.

I plan to make the table from maple or sycamore, I am not fussed if I use solid wood or veneers. The skirt under the top will carry some form of marquetry - probably a few medallions or stringing.

Also, How to make the skirt - I have never used bendy ply - is this an option for this job or should I stick to traditional bricks or laminations??

 

[SketchUp Guru]

That looks very interesting Chris.

A few years ago my brother built a demilune table. The construction method he used for the apron might be useful here for both the apron (skirt) anf the legs. He started with two pieces of wood long enough for the apron. One was about 3/4" thick and the other about 3/16" thick. He cut saw kerfs across the width of the thicker piece. The spacing was calculated so that the kerfs almost closed up when the piece was bent. This was done to prevent flat spots between kerfs. He then laminated the pieces together around a form with the thin piece on the inside. Once the glue cured the thinner piece held the thick one in its curve. It was quite stiff, too.

I could see this being used for the legs with a little bit of banding applied to the edges to hide the kerfs. That banding could be put in a beveled recess routed into the edges so the seam between leg and banding falls right on the corners.

 

[Nick W]

It's amazing how these oval/elliptical things keep coming up at the moment - seems to be flavour of the month.

Re the legs. If you are going to make them out of ply laminations then you will need to pre-veneer the faces-of-the-legs/edges-of-the-ply, so that the ply's structure doesn't telegraph through the show veneer. I'd recommend 1.5mm aero-ply.

Whichever method you end up trying I'd be inclined to treat the first set of legs as a prototype, then if they come out fine that's a bonus, if not then it was only a prototype.

For the skirt Bendy ply would work well, but again it would need facing, at least on the outer face, with aero-ply as the surface of bendy ply is rather uneven, and the cracks would telegraph through bought veneer. If you are cutting your own veneer then this would be less of a problem. I have developed a cunning way of making brick built elliptical structures, but you will need to look out for the next issue (or the one after that, or the one after that depending on how many parts they eventually decide to publish it in) of one of the woodworking mags to find to how that works. :wink:

Looking forward to seeing the WIPs and final item.

 

[Anonymous]

Chris

DCs latest book features full detials of how he made sucha table.

Persoanlly, I would laminate the curves

 

[Chris Knight]

Thanks guys - I shall obviously have to look out for the right book and mag! (Any clues as to titles of these will be welcomed..)

Dave, I don't think a kerfed curve would provide enough strength for the legs - unless perhaps I filled each saw cut with epoxy. It is s definite possibility for the skirt though.

Nick, I shall cut my own veneer if I need the thickness to avoid telegraphing problems. The first set of legs will definitely be a prototype!

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Chris, with the thin piece glued on over the kerfed side of the thicker one, I think you'll find it to be nearly as stiff as an unkerfed board. Suppose the kerf are placed toward the inisde of the arc with the thinner piece glued to it. The weight of the table would put the thin piece in compression while adding tension to the opposite side. To cause any movement you'd have to compress the wood fibers on the one side and stretch the ones on the other.

 

[woodbloke]

Chris - my money's on the laminating approach. Agreed, the first set of legs should be prototypes. Would also help if the laminations were sanded to constant thickness (speed sander) prior to the glue up, haven't made an elliptical apron so can't offer any advice in that area - Rob

 

[Chris Knight]

Dave, Rob,
I have pretty much come down on the side of laminating for the legs - it's a process I am familiar with and confident in. For the apron, I shall either kerf it or use a brick-laid construction - either avoids the need for the construction of yet another former that will clutter the shop once it's done with (I can hardly bear to throw these things away even though I know perfectly well the chances of my reusing most of them is vanishingly small ) As the apron is not planned to be structural but simply decorative, strength is not an issue.

 

[spadge]

When I was at college a mate made curved laminated legs for his coffee table from 3 mm oak constructional veneer. This needed no sanding or thicknessing before use. He put finish veneer on the edges to hide the laminations. It looked fine and was very strong.

I also used the constructional veneer for much smaller curves (had to "pre" steam bend it) but 3 layers with a layer of finish veneer either side glued easily.

Can't remember the cost of the oak constructional veneer but it worked well and needed no prep (for bigger curves anyway) just cut it to size and away you go.

 

[Chris Knight]

Spadge,
Thanks for that tip. I had not thought of constructional veneers and I am not familiar with them - I wonder if they are saw cut or knife cut? If the latter, I guess the strength is somewhat reduced from saw cut, although as you say, probably plenty strong enough.

 

[spadge]

Spadge,
Thanks for that tip. I had not thought of constructional veneers and I am not familiar with them - I wonder if they are saw cut or knife cut? If the latter, I guess the strength is somewhat reduced from saw cut, although as you say, probably plenty strong enough.

Pretty sure it was knife cut. The college bought it in whole leafs just like decorative veneer. So it came in various lengths up to above 2 meters and widths up to about 200mm IIRC.
It was, however, 1.5 mm thick (not 3) so it took quite a few layers to build up the requires thickness of the table leg.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys - I shall obviously have to look out for the right book and mag! (Any clues as to titles of these will be welcomed..)

Sorry Chris

The book is called "A Guide to Hand Tools and Methods"

http://www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp

 

[Chris Knight]

Spadge, I have found a place that does 2.5mm and 5mm in maple so that will be fine.

Tony, thanks.

 

[tim]

I have found a place that does 2.5mm and 5mm in maple so that will be fine.

Who is it out of interest?

Cheers

Tim

 

[ike]

Hi Chris,

Lots of lateral strengtn but you might find the legs will be quite springy in the form factor you have drawn, regardless of the method of lamination. I made a table years ago with laminated legs, however the cross section of them was in the other axis if you get what I mean.

cheers,

Ike

 

[Chris Knight]

Tim,
This is the place http://www.english-veneer.com/english_v ... neers.html

Ike,
I have wondered about that and my plan is to prototype the legs on test (I have the beginnings of a plan B if the design proves too springy). I might even rotate the cross section by 90 degrees as you mention, or just make them deeper and more square, they still look reasonable like that.