T Track ..... ARGH!!!! Now with added MITRE SLOTtyness! Help

[Brandlin]

Hi guys

Relative newbie to the forums here. I have made a 1200x600 router table and am looking for Aluminium extrusion T Track and Mitre Slot Track for both the table top and fence.

I cannot believe how &%$@ing difficult it is proving to buy 1200mm sections of track here in the UK... nor can i believe the prices!

The usual suppliers of all things are utterly missing the market here.

Rutlands - Dakota brand £40 for 4 x 1200 lengths... Permanently out of stock and dont reply to email questions
Axminster - UJK brand - believe size doesnt matter, only supply 600/900 lengths at extreme prices.. (nice orange though)
Woodworkersworkshop - Woodpecker brand supply the excellent looking Combo, dual and super tracks in 48" lengths but not the standard matching single T Track! Its expensive but its a specialist and i bet protected extrusion profile.
Woodworkersworkshop - Incra brand - lovely gold colour but oh the price for a standard profile! (and a different profile to the woodpecker they stock)

Add to all of this an UTTER confusion between imperial and metric. Selling T track quoted in METRIC sizes that is designed for 1/4-20 standard american standard bolts!

Aluminium extrusion is "cheap as chips" I can find industrial suppliers that can sell me suitable lipped U channel for T track and plain U channel for mitre slots in metric and imerpial sizes from stock. Sadly i would need to meet industrial order quantities, but at under £2 a metre!

Am i missing something? My google-fu is usually quite strong... ??

There must be a market in the UK for an all metric solution to this that doesn't cost more than my router to add track to my table??

Apologies for the rant... any help or advise greatly appreciated.

 

[MattRoberts]

I'm right there with you, so am hoping someone else will have the answer.

I recently bit the bullet and bought 3 x 900mm lengths of the UKJ track for my mitre saw station, but it was painful! I just joined them end to end to achieve the desired length

 

[Eric The Viking]

You're spot-on and not missing anything.

It is exasperating, as is stuff that arrives from China with imperial threads on it which you're not expecting. Like the two fence systems I bought recently - very nice otherwise, but a metric-imperial muddle because of the dominance of the American market.

A few years ago I did the same "Google-trek" you've just done. I have no prejudice against imperial threads and sizing, but metric channel would be so much more convenient (assuming it matched, say, M6 machine screw heads or bolts). there's no necessity for the huge bolts in common use - even M6 is probably overkill (my router table's fence T-track is held down by M4 countersunk machine screws, after the tiny self-tapping screws pulled out of the MDF!).

The trouble is that everybody needs it, but only ever about 6ft altogether, then that's them done for the lifetime of the table. An enterprising small retailer may read this and buy some for stock... who knows.

 

[monkeybiter]

Could these be of use? Sunk deeper or cut down the middle to give two?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/303...-8bc1-43a5-9ce5-c7c2a479b65e&rmStoreLevelAB=0

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HOT...-33eb-43e7-969f-09b9d84be16f&rmStoreLevelAB=0

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50P...-33eb-43e7-969f-09b9d84be16f&rmStoreLevelAB=0

 

[Lonsdale73]

Been there, tried various options before biting the bullet and buying Incra - not regretted it.

 

[MikeJhn]

.
Mike

 

[woodywoodwood]

Just a suggestion- I was building an extension table. And needed a track able to cope with quite a large amount of tension. I routed a one inch groove where required and used two steel strips let into the surface ( so they sat flush with the work surface) parallel to each other with a 6mm gap between them. Screwed down every 100mm they have worked fine. I may not be describing this well. Think of t track with no bottom, just the tops (which are the bits you use).
Sorry for my poor description - am sure someone else will have done similar.
Hope this helps.
WWW

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just a suggestion- I was building an extension table. And needed a track able to cope with quite a large amount of tension. I routed a one inch groove where required and used two steel strips let into the surface ( so they sat flush with the work surface) parallel to each other with a 6mm gap between them. Screwed down every 100mm they have worked fine. I may not be describing this well. Think of t track with no bottom, just the tops (which are the bits you use).
Sorry for my poor description - am sure someone else will have done similar.
Hope this helps.
WWW

That is a jolly good idea, as it gets round almost all the usual problems in one go!

Filed for future use...

E.

 

[ED65]

Just a suggestion- I was building an extension table. And needed a track able to cope with quite a large amount of tension. I routed a one inch groove where required and used two steel strips let into the surface ( so they sat flush with the work surface) parallel to each other with a 6mm gap between them. Screwed down every 100mm they have worked fine. I may not be describing this well. Think of t track with no bottom, just the tops (which are the bits you use).

This. Make the track instead of buying a track.

 

[Brandlin]

Well, MattRoberts and Eric The Viking... seems like we are in a similar boat. I am refusing to sink to overpaying for aluminium extrusion that is produced for a tiny fraction of the cost just because it is colourfully anodized and packaged in tiny lengths "for my convenience".

MonkeyBiter - what you are linking to are what is common referred to as "20/20 profile". It's a relatively common modular aluminium extrusion used extensively in industry for building machines and structures. There are literally dozens of manufacturers in the UK, rather than relying on aliexpress, and many sell directly to the 'hobby market' as the use of this profile in CNC machine tools has become more common. Such manufacturers include http://www.valuframe.co.uk , http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/ , https://kanya-uk.co.uk/ and http://www.motedis.co.uk/shop/index.php
A cursory look at any of those manufacturers would show the enormous descrepency in costs withujk, dakota, incra et al.
I have built many things over the years from a few of them, but the one profile they don't sell as standard is a 'flat' profile cross section which would be say 18 x 10 and suitable for recessing or mounting on the edge of a panel. The only manufacturers who do sell such a profile either wont sell to the public and/or have very large minimum order quantities. hence my question/rant.

woodywoodwood and ED65 - thanks for the suggestion. However I specifically dont want to make an alternative to track. Many reasons for this but including... I want to mount some track to the top edge of a fence to make a flip down adjustable stop, also the work surfaces i am using are kitchen worktop and i want to have an 'enclosed' slot rather than leaving the chipboard interior exposed.

I'm surprised that there isn't more on ebay and/or amazon of resellers selling extrusion.

Anyway - a suggestion from another thread has identified this http://mouldshop.co.uk/products/111-alu ... c-profile/
which is ideal and sold in 2m lengths for £7... (equivalent ujk 2m length would mean 4 lengths of their 600mm track at nearly £40)

For those of you that haven't used this kind of aluminium profile before the benefit is that it comes with specifically made "t slot nuts which slide in the slot. The t slot nut ensures that clamping pressure applied t the track is spread evenly over a longer section of the track and helps prevent buckling. Also the fact that the t slot nuts are usually the same material as the track means that you dont have a steel fixing crushing the softer aluminium track. I say benefit, because i think it is. some of you may see this as a restriction because you often can't just shove an m6 or m8 bolt head in there. But different circumstances suit different people and methods.

Anyway I have placed an order for 6m of track - (for less than 1.2m of the incra t slot track) I will let you know how it turns out.

On to the next problem....

MITRE SLOT TRACK

I have less experience here.

"Standard" mitre slot seems to be 3/4" (19mm?) internal dimention and 3/8" (9mm?) deep. But rather than a straight U channel has some proprietary cross section design. What is the design purpose of the cross section design? Is there a good reason why I can't simply buy 18 x 9mm aluminium U channel? Will 'standard' accesories like mitre gauges fit?

In this instance i currently only need 1200mm of the track and specialist mitre slot track runs from £40 for 4.8m for the dakota stuff.... £20 for 2 x 600mm lengths of UJK track ... £25 for 120mm incra extrusion.
But i can get standard 18x9 u channel in 1200mm lengths for less than £5.

Help/advice please

 

[MikeJhn]

The 18mm channel you link to is an external dimension, unfortunately most mitre gauges are made for the American market and will have a 3/4" slide, therefore you will need an 3/4" clearance inside the U channel..

Mike

Anyone else have a problem with this thread being extra long and not fitting on the page correctly.

 

[Brandlin]

The 18mm channel you link to is an external dimension, unfortunately most mitre gauges are made for the American market and will have a 3/4" slide, therefore you will need an 3/4" clearance inside the U channel..

Mike

Anyone else have a problem with this thread being extra long and not fitting on the page correctly.

Hi Mike - The track that I link to is for a T track NOT a mitre track. My question is "does a mitre slot have to have the fancy profile we see on incra, dakota, rockler and UJK etc or will a simple U channel suffice?"

Aluminium extrusion is cheap as chips, dimensionally accurate and (providing no shipping issues) straight
For example this : https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/1- ... um-channel
is £14 for 5m... FIVE METRES. Even with shipping at £12.95 thats £27. Compared to over £99 for the same length in UJK mitre track (not including shipping)

And yes - somehow the formatting on this thread is all over the place :-(

 

[Eric The Viking]

Formatting: I think it's down to some very long URLs posted in their completeness.

Ali channelling: Mitre slot extrusion is merely like other T-track, just 3/4".

Fixing exposed chipboard needn't be a big issue - simply paint it or use thinned gelcoat resin to seal it.
There's another huge advantage to using two flat strips to form the mouth of the slot: the screws have
the full thickness of the worktop to bite into (well very nearly).
I've bolted my existing T-track down because the screws pulled out, whilst only holding the fence down.
The slots also seriously weaken the cheaply-melamine-coated MDF it's made of, as the table isn't as
thick as normal kitchen worktop.

Bad design and poor use of materials, IMHO. I knew no better when I bought it.

 

[MikeJhn]

To strengthen chipboard or MDF drill the hole first and tap the screw into the hole lightly, remove the screw and strengthen the tapped hole with CYA dripped in, try it on a scrap piece, surprising how resilient it becomes.

Mike

Glad its not just me with the formatting issue, sent a note to Charley to see if it can be resolved.

 

[squib]

I am interested to hear the result of the small c profile having gone down this google route before!
I ended up using rutlands track while it was on offer , 3/4" I believe and at a decent price, and buying a couple of these....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miter-Track- ... SwU1RZgsEf
They are very cheap and are made of some sort of plastic or resin product and after buying 2 I ordered another 4 or so and have them all on the track to be
able to cut multiple sizes without moving them.
They come with the shoulder slightly oversize for the track I bought but a couple of strokes of a file and away you go with a nice smooth slide action.
They needed the bolt adjusting to make them a little slacker for my liking, a little awkward and I needed to jam the bolt head with a screwdriver as it is not held captive.
I broke one of the drop over stops by dropping it from my mezzanine and have super glued it back together as an extra extra one, so not very tough and would
be better with this part made in ally, however I haven't broken one using the track yet and have actually given then a fair thunk,by mistake, whilst sliding bigger pieces across the station.
So overall they are not super strong but for me the price of being able to have a few on the RAS track and on the pillar drill track outweighed spending more on
another system and at this price will I am sure be using them for more jigs etc.
Mini review over!
Happy hols, Squib.

 

[sunnybob]

It does gall to pay too much, but I look at it in the light of "how much is my time worth?"

Some people enjoy spending days or even weeks making stuff to save twenty quid. Good luck to them, but I value my hours more.
Over the last year I have bought the (admittedly overpriced) UJK mitre track, and the T track, and the mitre gauge pro, and the hold down clamps, and even the router table fence. It all went on the table in less than a half day, and it looks wonderful.
Count the cost of the rest of your workshop, and work out the tiny percentage the track cost.

 

[MattRoberts]

I've actually bought the t-slot router cutter, but not yet had the chance to use it. Will be making a few jigs soon, so will report back on how I fare. I bought it to work with the axminster ratchet clamps

 

[MikeJhn]

I bought one of those about six months ago, never have found where I put it, the only way I really know I did buy one is by looking at my orders on Wealdon's web site, its an age thing, I do not recommend it, age that is. :roll:

Mike

 

[jontyash]

Hi Brandlin,

How did you get on with the track from Mouldshop? Did it work out in the end as I'm looking to get some myself?

Can you let me know?

Thanks!

 

[Sideways]

Totally sympathise. I've been there too. In the end I took the same attitude as Bob and bought sticks of T track from Axminster. My one observation is that their track with a dovetailed outer edge is waaay better than square sided track. A tight fitting dovetail provides a good resistance to pull up, much better than piddly little screws through the bottom of the track (buy M4 stainless machine screws with torx countersunk heads for a clean job by the way ...)